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EC-10 Absent
23rd November 2007, 20:40
Hi everyone

I feel like starting my career on the forums with some suggestions that i believe would heighten gameplay while still being reasonable.

When you stick a corpse to a wall, it would be cool if there was a really quick
animation of your hand driving a nail through the head/hand/foot of the body.
There would be a satisfying sound and the nail would stay there, hl2 crossbow style.
It would also be nice if you could grab a corpses head by putting your cross hairs on it.

The I.r.i.ss voice commands stink if i may say so. There should be a "Negative", a "Need backup" or similar, something indicating youre low on health, and "Hes hurt" or similar. The taunts should be in a separate menu, like in ET:QW.

I also think the HUD should be as minimal as possible, as this increases the immersion. Im not very fond of showing your health as a number, but i have no other idea of what you could have instead.
As a side note, i think the shotguns origin point is really awkward, and the arm looks broken. Even though i have no experience whatsoever in modeling and animation, i believe this could be fixed by adjusting its origin point.

Concerning maps, a few maps with large extremely dark portions which would REQUIRE flashlights or goggles to see even a bit. Think of a couple of I.r.i.s waving flashlights around, as the hidden throws barrels and Jimmeh at them
while saying "Fresh meat" and the other taunts :D

Now for less serious and fun stuff :)

An alien style motion tracker, which you choose in you equipment slot. It would be selectable as a weapon, and it would show the movements of your fellow I.r.i.s, moving props, and the hidden. It could possibly be an "add on" to your pistol of choice, showing up in you left hand instead for a separate slot.
I believe this item would promote teamplay.

I think Ive read about someone suggesting flares for the equipment slot. Would be great both for I.r.i.s and for the hidden to play with. I think there were some in Ep1.

And last, some kind of grenade that shot out throwing knives, which would paint the hidden pink, release smoke and poison everyone they hit.

Isolation
23rd November 2007, 22:10
Paintgrenade-free, i promise!


And last, some kind of grenade that shot out throwing knives, which would paint the hidden pink, release smoke and poison everyone they hit.

The lack of sarcasm tags in that last one made it so your broke your promise. Paint me disappointed.

;)

Otherwise, most of that is pretty well thought out, and most is probably already dealt with (just don't expect a pin animation).

Demented
23rd November 2007, 22:13
It wasn't a paintgrenade. Technically.
It was a paintthrowingknifegrenade.

Master of Puppets
23rd November 2007, 22:31
When you stick a corpse to a wall, it would be cool if there was a really quick
animation of your hand driving a nail through the head/hand/foot of the body.
There would be a satisfying sound and the nail would stay there, hl2 crossbow style.

When i imagine it in work im just lol. He could even be heart from distance because all those nails clinking ^^ Like: *clink clink* What was that? *Bang* *pigsticked* :D


It would also be nice if you could grab a corpse´s head by putting your cross hairs on it.

You can do that already i think.


The I.r.i.s´s voice commands stink if i may say so. There should be a "Negative", a "Need backup" or similar, something indicating you´re low on health, and "He´s hurt" or similar. The taunts should be in a separate menu, like in ET:QW.

Negative isnt needed cause when you dont reply affirmative its the same. When taunt "Hidden spotted" its similar to need backup imho. when i want to say "He´s hurt" i taunt If it bleeds we can kill it and also you can see that by the blood in corners :) But i think reworked taunts would be gr8 in b5.


Concerning maps, a few maps with large extremely dark portions which would REQUIRE flashlights or goggles to see even a bit. Think of a couple of I.r.i.s waving flashlights around, as the hidden throws barrels and Jimmeh at them
while saying "Fresh meat" and the other taunts :D

Decay?


An alien style motion tracker, which you choose in you equipment slot. It would be selectable as a weapon, and it would show the movements of your fellow I.r.i.s, moving props, and the hidden. It could possibly be an "add on" to your pistol of choice, showing up in you left hand instead for a separate slot.
I believe this item would promote teamplay.

This item would imbalance the gameplay and give Iris too easy way of killing the hidden


And last, some kind of grenade that shot out throwing knives, which would paint the hidden pink, release smoke and poison everyone they hit.

Something like this has already been discussed i think.

Master of Puppets
23rd November 2007, 22:39
The I.r.i.ss voice commands stink if i may say so. There should be a "Negative", a "Need backup" or similar, something indicating youre low on health, and "Hes hurt" or similar. The taunts should be in a separate menu, like in ET:QW.

Negative isnt needed cause when you dont reply affirmative its the same. When taunt "Hidden spotted" its similar to need backup imho. when i want to say "Hes hurt" i taunt If it bleeds we can kill it and also you can see that by the blood in corners :) But i think reworked taunts would be gr8 in b5.

Hmm i just checked the sounds folder ^^

EC-10 Absent
23rd November 2007, 23:59
When i imagine it in work im just lol. He could even be heart from distance because all those nails clinking ^^ Like: *clink clink* What was that? *Bang* *pigsticked* :D

"Something clinked above me. Why is that teddy bear hanging in the ceiling? And why does it spin around really fast? Better shoo - "

You can do that already i think.

Last time i tried, i kept grabbing his foot. His dance was rather awkward..


Negative isnt needed cause when you dont reply affirmative its the same. When taunt "Hidden spotted" its similar to need backup imho. when i want to say "Hes hurt" i taunt If it bleeds we can kill it and also you can see that by the blood in corners :) But i think reworked taunts would be gr8 in b5.

I like using radio messages when responding to chat or someone with a mic.
"If it bleeds, we can kill it" is usually something people just spam. Id like to be able to tell my team that 617 just had a lead enema.


Decay?


I mean even darker. You shouldn't be navigate without a light source. Maybe ive just got too high brightness?



This item would imbalance the gameplay and give Iris too easy way of killing the hidden.


Yeah, probably, but you gotta admit it would feel cool :)



Something like this has already been discussed i think.


Ok, but this grenade is a special grenade, therefore its green ;)

starstriker1
24th November 2007, 04:19
Some well thought out ideas.

A darker map... Decay is already pushing it to the limit. While I can appreciate that the IRIS still can navigate without a light source in that map, they have an INCREDIBLY difficult time spotting the hidden without sufficient lighting, which ruins the gameplay. Even with a flashlight, the hidden is nearly impossible to track if he's good at staying in peripheral vision. Doom 3 style pitch black corridors are not fun to play this mod in.

I personally agree with you on the voice binds, though it appears to be a bit of a contentious subject. I think they need some kind of overhaul, though.

I hear you loud and clear on the minimalistic HUD. B5 is seeing some reductions in that department, and B6 will REALLY get rid of it. There have been some ideas tossed around as far as non numerical health displays, but none have really stuck.

A Knife in the Dark
24th November 2007, 04:52
I disagree with everything! Except, of course, the painthrowingknifenervegasggrenade. :P

On a more serious note, A non Numerical Health Display? Reminds me of... Resident Evil? Hm. But yeah, we could get a life support animation going or something for that in place of the health to show Green, orange, and red; with words like "Healthy", "Wounded", and "Critical" to be placed under them, respectively.

I liked the idea a while back of having health and ammo, as well as radar being displayed with IRIS Aura View in B5.

As a side note, the IR Flare Gun (instead of the IR Nerve Gas Launcher or the IR Anti-Aura View Launcher) would be a cool add-on as well and would be cool to be the replacement of the formerly mentioned ones that I'd Suggested.

Isolation
24th November 2007, 06:22
For some reason, I like the good ol' "audio/visual effect" school of health display. Corners of the screen darken (not red, but black, as in losing consciousness), labored breathing. Things that give the effect of you being screwed up but, just as in real life, you can't actually tell HOW injured you are.

Then, that's just me :cool:

Paegus
24th November 2007, 07:29
as in a progressively more opaque screen overlay the lower your health is?


as for dark maps... decay already gets quite a lot of flack because people don't all have high quality monitors (or settings) so some find it all but unplayable. beyond that being limited to the flashlight's range and radius would make the map far too hidden friendly imo. it's already packed with the ultimate planks of doom... you want them to be invisible? besides the hidden's player would be faced with the exact same limitation: a pitch dark map. but then he has no flashlight or night vision goggles since technically he can't see. they'd have to rework the hidden 'sees' so his player can detect the wall in front of his face. perhaps if they gave the hidden fullbright but painted over it with a that motion render thing it might work to balance things out but dont get your hopes up.

the motion tracker equipment has been no'd before. it's too much of an advantage. sure it might compensate for things in a really really dark map but what would it do in say... stalkyard?

Cheesey
24th November 2007, 07:31
For some reason, I like the good ol' "audio/visual effect" school of health display. Corners of the screen darken (not red, but black, as in losing consciousness), labored breathing. Things that give the effect of you being screwed up but, just as in real life, you can't actually tell HOW injured you are.

I like this idea, would have suggested a similar way, and hey, after some playing you would know how bad you're hurt. You could make the effect even stronger by keeping the screen blurry every now and then or moving it slightly in random direction... but that may be too much for playing... you wont be able to hit 617 anymore... forget everything after "You could.." :)



When you stick a corpse to a wall, it would be cool if there was a really quick
animation of your hand driving a nail through the head/hand/foot of the body.
There would be a satisfying sound and the nail would stay there, hl2 crossbow style.

Would there also be a naillimit? So you just have 9 nails to pin? (So there would be less spastic-IRIS) :D



It would also be nice if you could grab a corpses head by putting your cross hairs on it.

AFAIK thats already possible, sometimes you just have to try a lil more...



Concerning maps, a few maps with large extremely dark portions which would REQUIRE flashlights or goggles to see even a bit. Think of a couple of I.r.i.s waving flashlights around, as the hidden throws barrels and Jimmeh at them
while saying "Fresh meat" and the other taunts :D

hdn_decay is already really really dark and its very hard for an IRIS to spot 617 here. In the dark mainhall its very hard to spot him and also in the pitchblack corners.
It often leads to camping IRIS in brighter areas and shooting their ammo in dark corners just for sure...



An alien style motion tracker, which you choose in you equipment slot. It would be selectable as a weapon, and it would show the movements of your fellow I.r.i.s, moving props, and the hidden. It could possibly be an "add on" to your pistol of choice, showing up in you left hand instead for a separate slot.
I believe this item would promote teamplay.

That would be really unfair for 617. He is a lil overpowered sometimes, but that would imbalance the game really...



And last, some kind of grenade that shot out throwing knives, which would paint the hidden pink, release smoke and poison everyone they hit.

I'd like the same nade with small FN P90-Guns instead of the knifes...

-SM-SUCKER
24th November 2007, 17:51
Grabbing the limbs your aiming at SHOULD work. At least the devs tell us so, but they don't know why it's not working. Especially the strange thing that it seems to grab the same bone over and over again.

EC-10 Absent
24th November 2007, 23:19
The motion tracker wasn't a "serious" suggestion, just something i figured would be cool, and not thinking much more about it.

Nails would be unlimited of course, the idea was just to enhance the good ol' corpse pinning experience.

About dark maps, I must have set my brightness too high. I can see very clearly in almost every room in Decay.

A health support animation is a great idea! The hidden could have something like his stamina meter for health too. However, I dislike having a black haze around your view to indicate health. It would be too distracting and annoying to have it for the rest of the round when you get hurt.

Concerning corpses, i keep grabbing the same foot every time just like you said. Hope there is a way to fix this.. I also wish I could throw corpses, and that they would leave bloodstains wherever they smash into something or just lay dead.

Nice to hear that the HUD will be reduced.

Isolation
25th November 2007, 00:55
as in a progressively more opaque screen overlay the lower your health is?

It'd start at the extreme corners ("I'm not feeling so well"), work inwards a bit ("I'm losing blood") and then range to a deeper effect that would slightly cut in on peripheral vision ("It's all going dark and cold"). It sort of becomes a minor case of tunnel vision. All that would be accompanied by audio cues.

You've seen the effect in other games I'm certain, but it's usually red... which I don't understand, since when I was fucked up, it was black.

starstriker1
25th November 2007, 05:08
About dark maps, I must have set my brightness too high. I can see very clearly in almost every room in Decay.

Certainly, though I severely doubt you could see the hidden clearly as well. The hidden becomes extremely difficult to track in areas where there isn't enough contrast or variation in the backdrop.

Cheesey
25th November 2007, 08:18
It'd start at the extreme corners ("I'm not feeling so well"), work inwards a bit ("I'm losing blood") and then range to a deeper effect that would slightly cut in on peripheral vision ("It's all going dark and cold"). It sort of becomes a minor case of tunnel vision. All that would be accompanied by audio cues.

You've seen the effect in other games I'm certain, but it's usually red... which I don't understand, since when I was fucked up, it was black.

For example: Call of Duty 4?! Maybe they think red is more aggressive to force you to get your ass out of the bullet-lines ;)

khu
25th November 2007, 09:03
It'd start at the extreme corners ("I'm not feeling so well"), work inwards a bit ("I'm losing blood") and then range to a deeper effect that would slightly cut in on peripheral vision ("It's all going dark and cold"). It sort of becomes a minor case of tunnel vision. All that would be accompanied by audio cues.

You've seen the effect in other games I'm certain, but it's usually red... which I don't understand, since when I was fucked up, it was black.

Well it's all cool and good in some ways, but you can't just throw this stuff around willy nilly. Think about it. If you penalize IRIS players for low health, that'll totally throw off the balancing here. The worse you do, the LESS you can see the hidden -- so once you're down to 50% health, you're totally fucked then?

Isolation
25th November 2007, 09:30
Well it's all cool and good in some ways, but you can't just throw this stuff around willy nilly. Think about it. If you penalize IRIS players for low health, that'll totally throw off the balancing here. The worse you do, the LESS you can see the hidden -- so once you're down to 50% health, you're totally fucked then?

No no no, I was thinking slightly subtler. You'd only get the worse of the effects when drastically low, almost literally near death (Probably sub-20's and lower). The 70-50 HP range would be when the effect would kick in in a noticeable fashion. Most people don't start panicking (in the game, that is) until about that range.

khu
25th November 2007, 10:03
No no no, I was thinking slightly subtler. You'd only get the worse of the effects when drastically low, almost literally near death (Probably sub-20's and lower). The 70-50 HP range would be when the effect would kick in in a noticeable fashion. Most people don't start panicking (in the game, that is) until about that range.

OK, but the point is, ANYTHING that detracts from your ability to detect and hunt the hidden unbalances the game from the current status quo. Hindering of peripheral vision is included in this, any therefore anything resembling this will need to be carefully handled.

Isolation
25th November 2007, 10:27
OK, but the point is, ANYTHING that detracts from your ability to detect and hunt the hidden unbalances the game from the current status quo. Hindering of peripheral vision is included in this, any therefore anything resembling this will need to be carefully handled.

Well, one concession would be to have the "blackout" portions simply be partially see-through, like sunglasses or something to that effect. Enough to let a player know his character is in a bad spot, but not hindering him too much.

Paegus
25th November 2007, 10:27
so re we talking IRIS, Hidden or both here?

For IRIS the overlay would indeed be a bit disruptive. at least vs experiences hiddens who would pounce around red-ing everyone first. the 3 level (aura) setting would work fine and would keep a bit of ambiguity in that you don't know if you can afford to jump off that ledge or not. last i recall there was talk of having a heartbeat monitor that went from a green pulse line (normal) to a faster yellow (injured) to rapid red (critical) that ran the same way as the hidden's aura view.

the progressive screen overlay thing would work far better for the Hidden. just need to calibrate it to clue the player in when they're 1-shot killable. <75 for the shotgun, <20(?) for the f2k/rage, <7(?) for the 57. i still like this (http://forum.hidden-source.com/showthread.php?t=7799) way despite various people's aversion to big ugly bars at the bottom of the screen.

Cheesey
25th November 2007, 13:25
Not bad, but a lil bit too high - because of the nades...

Yep, 617 has many advantages right now, if you would disadvantage an IRIS it would really get unbalanced....

TheOtherDante
25th November 2007, 16:36
No no no, I was thinking slightly subtler. You'd only get the worse of the effects when drastically low, almost literally near death (Probably sub-20's and lower). The 70-50 HP range would be when the effect would kick in in a noticeable fashion. Most people don't start panicking (in the game, that is) until about that range.

i actually agree with this idea, i know why most of you say no is because you believe it would cause an imbalance but what if we balance it using something we already have. adrenaline shots similar to how they use adrenaline on people near death to stabilize them, we can use it here.

normally above that 30% mark it would blur you vision and speed you up

below that 30% mark it could clear your vision up and give you a smaller speed boost.

it can also be made able to give to other around if they need it.