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A Knife in the Dark
21st November 2007, 20:20
I've been thinking up different things that I could suggest be added to the game, or at least viewed for their worth. Anyway, I read the thread in which tells you the limitations of acceptable Suggestions, and wander whether "IRIS members will not be allowed any more weapons than they already have" means that they can carry no more than 2 weapons and a piece of equipment, or that we cannot suggest adding equipment.

If it is the latter, then the following is most likely null and void... but oh well, its fun to think this stuff up.

I.R.I.S. Gadgets

Flare Launcher: This is a modified flare pistol created by the Infinitum Research labs some time into the hunt for Subject 617. It fires one projectile at a time and One is allowed to carry up to 2 in reserve to the one in the chamber of the flare gun. Instead of a flare, the gadget is modified to fire Nerve Gas grenades that release a Cloud of volatile fumes that damage the Hidden's Nervous Systems. As the 303 blurs his vision this gadget does damage to the Subject, who, if caught in the cloud for a long enough period of time, will take up to 20 damage (that is, if he stays in the cloud until it has disappeared.)

As an alternative application, instead of damaging nerve gas, it could release a cloud of fumes that counteract the Hidden's Aura View for up to 2 or so minutes. This could be useful to cover One's trail while moving or to mask deathly wounded teammates under it's protection so that it could potentially confuse the hidden of who to strike at first to get a quick kill. (This would also put emphasis on the Hidden's ability to be perceptive and know the faces of his victims.

ACOG scope: This might require a change in the rifle's model, or some thought on the matter, however it seems the scope on the rifle has become slightly useless as the zoom is far too deep, while an ACOG only doubles the view of an object, and could be used in most maps by all the guns (exept for the rifle, if one wants that scope.) As well as this, the member who uses an ACOG scope would be unable to use it on his pistol, so this only applies and allows for the primary weapon to have a gadget.

Red Dot Sight: This would be similar to the laser, which is good for aiming from the hip, but in B5 One is able to use the weapon's Ironsights, thus the laser sight becomes useless whilst doing so. The Red Dot sight would be useless while firing from the hip, in this fashion, but when using the ironsights becomes very useful in pinpoint accuracy, and is similar to the laser in that way. Unlike the ACOG, the Red Dot Sight can be used on pistols.

Silencer: Upon first inspection, the silencer would be very useless but when I think about it; a hidden uses his hearing to know where someone is shooting from when he is not looking at them; and Aura View would not work because you need to stand still for it's use. So, when One uses the silencer it becomes harder for the hidden to hear and know where you're shooting from. Of course, like the ACOG scope and the Rifle, the shotgun would be unable to have a silencer.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to constructive criticism on my suggestions, and though they may not be accepted, it was interesting to think them up.


P.S. Has anyone's suggestions ever been accepted? I'm just curious.

Ging
21st November 2007, 20:45
P.S. Has anyone's suggestions ever been accepted? I'm just curious.

Yes, plenty have been...

Genre
21st November 2007, 21:53
I like your flare launcher concept, but in my opinion, it could be a modified pistol that launches actual flares to light up an area. I have this tomb raider thing going on in my head I guess. It would be a secondary weapon in place of a pistol, or hell, as equipment. One or two flares, taking as long as a sonic alarm takes to place to light, and is thrown to the ground. If possible, the hidden, if given the opportunity, can grab this flare and move it of his own accord. The light shouldn't be steady, I think it should flicker and dim and spark, and eventually fade out in say, 20 or 30 seconds (or whatever seems viable).

I think something like this would add more to the gameplay, lighting up dark rooms and or halls, especially with HDR, rather than what I believe will become gas camping IRIS.


I also like the silencer idea. It's true that the hidden uses sound just as much if not more than the iris. When I'm hidden and I'm running, say, around stalkyard looking for one or two IRIS that aren't showing up on the aura due to distance or walls, I just throw some props around and listen for shots as I pounce away from a doorway or whatnot. With a silencer, it forces the hidden to be more aware of their surroundings instead of pouncing in and slashing, and then pouncing out. Someone could be "baiting" in a hall, with a friend around the corner, and you'd definately know it with the gunfire.

Zabiela
21st November 2007, 22:11
Flares = Temporary light in dark places = I like the idea.

I dont much like the nerve gas idea, theres the 303 for that, and I think it would be too powerful.

VoiceOfDecember
21st November 2007, 22:24
I like the idea of the ACOG scope. I too find the scope on the rifle too deep. But I'm not a scope man so I don't mind if that idea gets Ginged. But for people who find a scope usefull, great idea :)

Paegus
21st November 2007, 22:30
Flare Launcher: ...created by the Infinitum Research labs some time into the hunt for Subject 617....

some time? he escaped what, 20 minutes ago? if they'd had time to manufacture a poison gas grenade shooting pistol surely it would have been simpler to just grab some thermal goggles... /mutters something about IR wavelengths being easier to wrap than visible :p

as for the flare gun... it's not a bad idea but isn't that what the flashlight is for?


sights
not sure about these. only the f2k will get any kind of zoom. otherwise ironsights becomes secondary and clunky. 1 button for IS and another for holo-dot?

and there was an attempt at a holo-dot sight for one of the weapons but apparently it didn't animate too well so it was abandoned for the more traditional custom CSS style stato-dot. which was a great shame really...


Silencer:

he's got super hearing right? i don't think a silencer would do much beyond allowing iris players to crank up their volumes so that only the radio messages are deafeningly loud

-SM-SUCKER
22nd November 2007, 00:19
Launching flares would be nice. After all they would have more use than the sonic alarms :)

Scopes have something sniperesque, and I don't think something moving as fast as the Hidden should be shot using a scope. Not at those short distances. Shooting from the hip is IN.

As for the silencers I don't see their use. As has been said, the Hidden has super ears. And the IRIS are no covert ops team, they are just some soldiers hunting an invisible teenager who struggles with his hormones :)
And I don't think the dev team will give up on their cool teams:
Fast and stealthy against slow and loud.

A Knife in the Dark
22nd November 2007, 07:12
Thanks for the replies, and appreciate the thoughts on them. I dunno if the Hidden has super hearing or not, but if he does then it doesn't help the player playing him that much :P but indeed, it does take a bit away from the "slow and loud" team, but in that respect so does the adrenaline shot, for a time. Also, the ACOG is a small scope and is actually used for indoor operations from time to time, or used for medium-short range combat which would help with taking down a fleeing hidden.

But yes, that is a shame if the Red Dot Sight was abandoned already, because I'd like to see that in this game, or at least some new equipment. Well, cya guys and thanks again.

TheChrist
22nd November 2007, 15:48
he's got super hearing right? i don't think a silencer would do much beyond allowing iris players to crank up their volumes so that only the radio messages are deafeningly loud

Hidden has, but does the person playing him?

MantraSlider00eD
22nd November 2007, 16:48
Maybe a paint granade, that will cover the hidden in paint so the IRIS can see him, for a short time.

Paegus
22nd November 2007, 17:09
Hidden has, but does the person playing him?
he can't really see either can he but that doesn't seem to be an issue to the person playing him does it? at least not yet :evilgrin: (http://forum.hidden-source.com/showthread.php?p=124470)


Maybe a paint granade, that will cover the hidden in paint so the IRIS can see him, for a short time.

the paint on his skin/trousers would be within the bendy field anyway and would thus be invisible though the explosion of paint might just reveal his presence with the partial disappearance and he might just leave foot/hand/head prints. either way it's been no'd more times than chuck norris can count...

Daedalus
22nd November 2007, 17:15
Maybe a paint granade, that will cover the hidden in paint so the IRIS can see him, for a short time.

Oh come on, just read the stickies. It only takes two minutes. :/

A Knife in the Dark
22nd November 2007, 22:50
Hahaha. My thread has been blessed by the paint grenade question :P Yay.

What do you guys think about the Flare Gun's Anti-Aura View Grenade idea?

Cheesey
23rd November 2007, 12:15
I think the game doesn't need more of any kind of grenades. 617 has his pipe-bombs, thats enough. The IRIS is a special trained team, but not SWAT, who are rescuingn victims and defending bad peoples in the city. Sure, if the want, they could fire a small atomic-bomb, but hey...

The best thing they could use in reality would be trap-bombs, like the sonics, just bombs, and thermal goggles, but then you wont have fun to play.
Half-LifeČ also wouldnt be that fun to play without the gravgun...


he paint on his skin/trousers would be within the bendy field anyway and would thus be invisible though the explosion of paint might just reveal his presence with the partial disappearance and he might just leave foot/hand/head prints.

I thought it would take more time for 617 to get something invisible with his field than you could play a round...


either way it's been no'd more times than chuck norris can count...

:D

Paegus
23rd November 2007, 15:43
for massive (as in lots of mass) objects like barrels and crate... but they're outside the field and absorb it slowly.

the paint is low mass and is inside the field so...

Demented
23rd November 2007, 22:15
So if we made really high mass paint...

Paegus
24th November 2007, 07:30
it would still be inside the field so wouldn't have to absorb it...

Cheesey
24th November 2007, 07:35
So if we made really high mass paint...

I rofled! :D Lead-Color :D (I imagined a big crate full of color and 617 standing right underneath it. Then a IRIS is heared: "NOW!".... :D)

Demented
24th November 2007, 07:48
it would still be inside the field so wouldn't have to absorb it...

Riot foam.

Bright pink riot foam. With lead.

VoiceOfDecember
24th November 2007, 12:49
Riot foam.

What about Bear Mace? With added lead...

A Knife in the Dark
27th November 2007, 23:31
Once again I have a few more suggestions;

What if, when killed, a body gains an aura view, colored blue or another dark, cold color? This would help the hidden remember where he dropped a body or hid one, and just add to the effect that he can see organisms.

Secondly, I think it would be cool to have the IRIS radar pick up dead comrades, perhaps as a different color as well but it would be cool to see a dot on your radar fly past you or something :P, like if they were in docks and they grabbed the body and were moving it. It'd also help track the hidden while he grabbed the body. It would seem like a good ad-on since a lot of people have been saying the hidden is overpowered, and being able to track him via a corpse on your radar would help a bit, I suppose.

Lastly there are two that are small and basically just thoughts I've had about the game.

Maybe the aura view could be a little stronger, because I find that IRIS are still able to sneak up on you in some of the maps, even when they're right around the corner, only invisible to aura because your just a bit off the perfect place to see them (which isn't a top priority when trying to gain some health before leaving, as quick as possible.)

So, what does everyone think?

Genre
27th November 2007, 23:47
I agree that bodies should be seen on aura, possibly using colors like dark purple, blue, and black or something to represent how much health you can leech out of them. If possible, have the colors fading and faint.

I don't like the idea regarding the radar, particularly because if the body is being carried away in front of you, you're busy shooting at it, not looking at the radar. You can hear the body smacking around if you're close enough when the hidden goes around a corner, and often as you turn the corner you catch a glimpse of an arm or other limb as the hidden passes another corner. I do think that there should be something revolving around the radios, however. If it were possible (I really know nothing about the limitations the devs face), I'd like to see, or rather, hear "live action" over the radio. For instance, if an iris hits "Subject sighted" and starts shooting, I'd like to hear those gunshots over the radio. Of course, I doubt this could ever be implemented. Maybe instead of having your body tracking, have a static (like when you turn your tv to a blank channel) icon show up on the radar indicating the location of death.

I think the aura range is fine, but I'm going to say that "seeing through" walls is determined by the thickness of the wall? Again, I don't know how aura is setup, but I think that you should be able to see all IRIS within the range of the aura. If that means decreasing the radius, so be it. Although that would make the hidden's job much easier, as he wouldn't actually have to look for the IRIS, and actually move around the map, which I think is essential.

Hannibal
28th November 2007, 05:37
does somebody actually use the radar?
I don't.

Paegus
28th November 2007, 05:53
having corpses show up would be nice but that means the hidden doesn't have to remember where he left them...

i seem to recall the non gibbed corpses showing up on the radar/iris aura) even after they're dead in the current b5 build. i could be wrong though.

the aura 'range' is limited by the vis groups. if the iris' model is not being rendered from the hidden's point of view they're invisible. they're looking into fixing it.

Genre
28th November 2007, 06:03
having corpses show up would be nice but that means the hidden doesn't have to remember where he left them...

i seem to recall the non gibbed corpses showing up on the radar/iris aura) even after they're dead in the current b5 build. i could be wrong though.

the aura 'range' is limited by the vis groups. if the iris' model is not being rendered from the hidden's point of view they're invisible. they're looking into fixing it.

For corpses, maybe code something similar to the vis groups so the corpse must be within a "range" to show up?

What's the story behind the aura? If the hidden is sensing an actual aura, I'd like to see it displayed in a Kirlian effect rather than a colored cloud. If this idea took hold, the aura could (not too) slowly fade from the corpse, eventually going cold.

Demented
28th November 2007, 06:31
Presumably, the Hidden's aura works as a sum of all his senses. The highlighting of the IRIS may be under the same principle that we find it easier for our eyes to distinguish movement. Only, with that applied to all of your senses, it'd be hard to miss anything.

VoiceOfDecember
28th November 2007, 12:05
Maybe the aura view could be a little stronger

Agreed. I sometimes take up to 1min to find where the last IRIS is and from there I work my way around them. If it was stronger I wouldn't face a disadvantage, gameplay would actually become quicker and more exciting. Maybe I'm a little too afraid of pouncing around a corner and beeing blown away but generally speaking, I use aura after every room/section I reach to scout around and continue. With a larger range I would be able to estimate where I could get to to make an ambush instead of finding them and then pussyfooting around and setting myself up.

Cheesey
28th November 2007, 13:24
does somebody actually use the radar?
I don't.

It's a lil bit small ranged! Sometimes I'd really like to use it, but if the guy u are seeking isnt a few meters in front of you, you cant even locate him, cause there are no arrows pointing in the direction or something like that. Dont misunderstand me, the radar-HUD-size is fine, but the radius of the radar (;)) is rather small and you cant see over the edge...

Paegus
28th November 2007, 17:25
It's a lil bit small ranged! Sometimes I'd really like to use it, but if the guy u are seeking isnt a few meters in front of you, you cant even locate him, cause there are no arrows pointing in the direction or something like that. Dont misunderstand me, the radar-HUD-size is fine, but the radius of the radar (;)) is rather small and you cant see over the edge...

ya seriously...

win: http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/6675/hdnhighrise0001fa0.th.jpg (http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/6675/hdnhighrise0001fa0.jpg)

too bad the health print out wont bloody budge from the corner.

Handym
11th December 2007, 13:28
as for the flare gun... it's not a bad idea but isn't that what the flashlight is for?

You do know what a flare gun is for, right?

You shoot it up the air, and your mates will see where it is.

Ging
11th December 2007, 14:24
You shoot it up the air, and your mates will see where it is.

Which is great, if you're using it in a large open area, like a forest, or at sea... But in an outdoor area the size of our maps? Not much point - it'd be easier to just shout.

You should perhaps also read the first post of this thread that suggests the Flare launcher - giving you a correct context to base your points on.

Demented
11th December 2007, 21:09
What?
Flare guns are for whacking the Hidden in the face and laughing about it.
I can't conceive of why you'd want to waste flares on anything else.

TheOtherDante
11th December 2007, 21:33
it could help mark the way for some on the really dark maps, or draw the hidden into a trap. how does that charming saying go... "like a moth to the fire"

Isolation
11th December 2007, 21:46
What?
Flare guns are for whacking the Hidden in the face and laughing about it.
I can't conceive of why you'd want to waste flares on anything else.

You just reminded me of the flare gun from Blood (and Blood 2 to a lesser extent). Seeing hidden catch fire after X amount of DOT burning would be good for a chuckle.

But, most admins can do that already.

Paegus
11th December 2007, 22:42
iirc ma_burn on the hidden is somewhat diappointing

Demented
11th December 2007, 23:00
I consider Mani's Admin to be the MTV of server plugins, and wouldn't miss it for the world.

That little idiom got transposed but good.

killerking_swe
12th December 2007, 00:05
I still whant to see grenades.. "yes i said it" its woud result in massiv TKs for some servers when a noob flips out. But heck, imagen stalkyard and you got him pinned down in the vent room. It be a nasty nade war. Or if you spot him jumping up behind on of the generators, its so boring to run up after him ^^
They dont need to be to powerful of course but coud be a nice tool to finish hidden whit.

In fact if it was someway to impent the CS version of the grenade it woud be fun to test whit, unless its already had some serious testing.

Also the timer woud be like 6 sec, so hidden can go WTF and try to jump away. Itch Assault IRIS coud pick a nade as a equipment. I dont have mutch use fo LAM anymore, and it woud be a nice addition insted of Flashlight.

Genre
12th December 2007, 04:15
I still whant to see grenades.. "yes i said it" its woud result in massiv TKs for some servers when a noob flips out. But heck, imagen stalkyard and you got him pinned down in the vent room. It be a nasty nade war. Or if you spot him jumping up behind on of the generators, its so boring to run up after him ^^
They dont need to be to powerful of course but coud be a nice tool to finish hidden whit.

In fact if it was someway to impent the CS version of the grenade it woud be fun to test whit, unless its already had some serious testing.

Also the timer woud be like 6 sec, so hidden can go WTF and try to jump away. Itch Assault IRIS coud pick a nade as a equipment. I dont have mutch use fo LAM anymore, and it woud be a nice addition insted of Flashlight.

Use adrenaline, you'll fall in love with it.

killerking_swe
12th December 2007, 04:40
Use adrenaline, you'll fall in love with it.

I have used it plenty, the more experianced hiddens knows just to jump away and reposition sense the IRIS cant see squat during the effect.

Genre
13th December 2007, 01:49
I have used it plenty, the more experianced hiddens knows just to jump away and reposition sense the IRIS cant see squat during the effect.

Practice spotting the hidden through the blur.

killerking_swe
13th December 2007, 14:46
Practice spotting the hidden through the blur.

meh, i think its hard enough as it is whitout it. The only reson i woud use andrenaline woud be to get to point A to point B faster and if you encounter hidden its spray and pray and hope the blood splashes will help u track him. Presonaly i enjoy a Lam or flashlight more, LAM to cover teamates whitout sending them to hell doing it and flashlight for the more dark hallways.

Andrenaline coud be used fairly easy against begginers that atempts to pouch forward to slash over and over again, where your backtracking andrenaline rush gives you a advantage, but against veterans i see no use for it.

Genre
13th December 2007, 22:04
Fair enough, I guess it all depends on your playing style. I use the flashlight on dark maps like decay and origin, and adrenaline on the brighter maps. I'm fairly good at spotting the hidden, so I'm working on seeing him through the blur. It's not so easy.

Ogilvy
16th December 2007, 12:02
Hi guys,

First of all, thanks for an amazing mod - nothing else comes even close to matching the atmosphere or playability, and the price is right, too! I've read through most of the suggestion posts and haven't seen the ideas I'll contribute, but apologies if they have come up before. And don't worry, I've read the stickies! So, some ideas:

1) An optional sound effect on the radar would be nice, just a background "blip blip blip". Maybe it could get faster when you're closer to teammates or some such... Obviously it wouldn't help you detect the Hidden at all and there should be an option to turn it off for people that find it annoying. It would essentially be something to boost the atmosphere a bit more.

2) On Overrun maps I think that Hidden players should have a different coloured "aura" when viewed by other Hiddens. I guess it wouldn't be too hard to implement, just making Hiddens' auras black.

3) This is an idea to improve the spectator mode a little. I'm not a programmer so have no idea if it's feasable or not, but it's cool in my head! Basically, after you die you become like an IRIS soldier back at base. Instead of seeing through just one security / helmet-mounted camera at a time, your screen is taken up with a bank of monitors each showing the helmet camera view of a surviving IRIS soldier. You could click on specific ones to maximise their view and have it like conventional spectator mode. When someone dies their camera just turns to static. Maybe there could be information like heart rates included in the "monitor bank" view. These would essentially be cosmetic. Maybe they could increase a little after a player has been running, but it doesn't matter so much. I think it would be really good if when you're spectating you can see all of the IRIS views on one screen and then one by one they turn to static and the heart monitors flat-line... If we're to extend the idea a little then perhaps there's potential in having the spectators communicating with the surviving members, but with set generic phrases ("Hidden sighted at Insertion Point", for example). This probably wouldn't work as it could unbalance the game but on the other hand it would allow "dead" players to still contribute.

Anyway, these are just ideas. I'd be interested to hear what others, especially the developers think of them. Thanks again for a great mod!

Paegus
16th December 2007, 16:56
1) An optional sound effect on the radar...
it's not a motion tracker mind you. granted i've moved the radar into the bottom middle of the screen so it's not so far away. but then i play with some odd resolutions.


...Overrun maps...
...are now unsupported. expect no changes there i'm afraid. at least until someone figures out how to get Tug-of-War working...


3) ... bank of monitors each showing the helmet camera view of a surviving IRIS soldier...
ripped right from Aliens...
it's not impossible and has been suggested numerous times before. the main problem is the need to create multiple camera textures. and then what to do with the normal spectator cameras as there's no set number ie 8. there's nothing really wrong with having the dead players 'back at base' telling the iris where the hidden is though. just need to fix the voice/text chat so the hidden can't see or hear it (unless he's close to an iris?) as well.
i don't recall if this has ever been out-and-out No'd.