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Master of the Arts
16th September 2007, 05:25
I would very much like to see bots implemented with AI abilities. It would be a nice change of pace to play with computer opponents so I could hone my skills as the hidden without worrying about having to get the kill on the hidden to become him.

Obviously, if the hidden were to be a bot, there would be serious limitations with the AI due to the ability for the Hidden to move wherever he wants to. Therefore climbing and holding onto walls or pouncing at a specific time would most likely be unable to be implemented due to the complex nature of the game's mechanics.

As of now, the bots seem to just walk around and stand in place. Other than having them stand there for you to stab to death or typing in the console command for them to empty their clip, there's no bot support for the game.

Mind you, I have no idea what adding in bot AI would entail, but it sure would be nice to see bots actually fighting back like in Counter-Strike.

Just a thought. Opinions???

Boat Builder
16th September 2007, 05:39
Part of the game is playing with your target's human emotions and responses.

For the work it would require, i don't think it would be all that great.

Unless the devs are already doing this, then shut me up and call me doctor hummus.

Hmm, although the ability to actually phys them could be good for people learning that particular skill. (or maybe you already can hit em with stuff, you just need to put some crazy thing into the console, i don't know)

EDIT: Also, it's very frustrating playing a game such as CS:S where 93% of every bloody server is just a bunch of goddam bots. Rather that didn't come anywhere near H:S.

Demented
16th September 2007, 05:49
Bots like those from Thief or Deus Ex would be good enough... For a retail release!

starstriker1
16th September 2007, 06:35
Bots, while nice, would be fantastically difficult to develop for this mod given the already limited resources of the team. The cost benefit of it is really not justifiable without also putting in the effort to create a full single player campaign, which is totally off the table unless you're planning to give the team the budget required to do just that.

Genre
16th September 2007, 06:58
I always make a LAN to practice my phys, it's good that they stand in one place because I can practice my aiming, but that doesn't help when I get into a server with actuall players who are moving.

Implementing the ability to phys the bots would be great, and maybe getting a waypoint system for the bots to follow so they actually run around.

Daedalus
16th September 2007, 07:52
It's been already discussed why bots won't be in the game. You see, it would be way too hard to make IRIS bots that see you like a human does, and react like a human does. A hidden bot wouldn't know how to pounce in combat situations and would get killed easily.

The only thing I want though are their phys shadows working properly. :D

Digit*
16th September 2007, 08:32
The only thing I want though are their phys shadows working properly. :D

I second that motion. Is there any way to implement that in Beta5?

Daedalus
16th September 2007, 08:46
Well afaik it's pretty easy to fix but they haven't gotten around to doing it yet.

Paegus
16th September 2007, 09:14
the easiest way to get their phys shadows to sync up is to set bot_mimic to you, add the bots, then set bot_mimic to not you, anyone else or 0. they'll stand still (at least in a listen server)

since they don't move from spawn they are much closer to their phys shadows.

ReMeDy
16th September 2007, 15:53
Yea I'm confused, I don't know if the phys_shadows have anything to do with it, but when I run a server, I can't phys kill bots. I can't even damage them, despite pigsticking a barrel right on their face. Do phys kills only work on human players?

Paegus
16th September 2007, 16:39
no. it's just that the physics 'hit boxes' referred to ash the phys shadow doesn't move with the bot for some reason. normally the bot wonders around aimlessly. if you lock them in place they dont so they are where they spawn and the phys shadow is right there. alternatively you can throw things around in iris spawn and you'll see them warp back every time you hit the phys shadow.

starstriker1
16th September 2007, 17:41
If I recall correctly, phys shadows are on the todo list, but they sure as hell aren't high enough priority to make B5.

Master of the Arts
16th September 2007, 19:08
EDIT: Also, it's very frustrating playing a game such as CS:S where 93% of every bloody server is just a bunch of goddam bots. Rather that didn't come anywhere near H:S.

I don't know about you, but I never see bots on the game. There are hundreds of servers that have humans playing.

The problem with this game is that no one wants to play it because there's far too many good players on. Since the action is about killing one super-player, if you will; there's little incentive to play the game because you know if you win, you're just going to get killed by the IRIS next round very quickly because you don't know what you're doing.

CS:S has bots in the game to teach you the basics of the levels and guns while still having a good time. After you've learned enough, you can then move onto player servers and attempt to be the hidden.

But as it stands now, most of the new players would much rather play a different game than spend 10 turns not killing anyone only to play as the hidden for one turn and lose because everyone else is better than you. It's kind of a turn-off when you die that people spam "noob" and laugh at you because you don't know how to play.

Granted, CS:S is a completely different type of FPS than Hidden, but there just isn't a big playerbase in Hidden because it's just a beta. Bots would give a person the ability to play whether people were on or not.

But as several people said, making the AI for bots would be extremely difficult.

Also, I noticed that someone mentioned a retail release. Is the dev team planning on releasing this game as a retail game in the distant future? With some gameplay fixes I think this would make a worthy secondary choice to counter-strike and day of defeat. What do you guys think?

starstriker1
16th September 2007, 19:47
Retail? Unlikely! I don't recall anyone bringing it up, myself.

Ging
16th September 2007, 20:21
Noooo, no plans for retail - as we've said in the past, we'd consider it if someone turned up on our doorstep with a large brief case full of money...

GIGAR
16th September 2007, 20:24
Noooo, no plans for retail - as we've said in the past, we'd consider it if someone turned up on our doorstep with a large brief case full of money...
How much is that? XD

Boat Builder
16th September 2007, 20:57
I don't know about you, but I never see bots on the game. There are hundreds of servers that have humans playing.

Really? I must just be unlucky.

But i remember when i used to play it some and finding a server that was bot free was usually quite a hassle.

ReMeDy
16th September 2007, 22:08
normally the bot wonders around aimlessly. if you lock them in place they dont so they are where they spawn and the phys shadow is right there.
Oh, yea by default they wander around, so how then do you get them to stop? What's the command for it?

Ging
16th September 2007, 22:51
bot_mimic 1 will make them mimic you (on a listen server), bot_mimic 2 (and upwards) will set them to mimic a bot, so they'll stand still.

Paegus
16th September 2007, 23:59
if you set bot_mimic 2 right off the bat they keep moving. you need to get them into a real player first then switch to a non-player number to get them to stand still.

Genre
17th September 2007, 04:27
I don't know about you, but I never see bots on the game. There are hundreds of servers that have humans playing.

The problem with this game is that no one wants to play it because there's far too many good players on. Since the action is about killing one super-player, if you will; there's little incentive to play the game because you know if you win, you're just going to get killed by the IRIS next round very quickly because you don't know what you're doing.

CS:S has bots in the game to teach you the basics of the levels and guns while still having a good time. After you've learned enough, you can then move onto player servers and attempt to be the hidden.

But as it stands now, most of the new players would much rather play a different game than spend 10 turns not killing anyone only to play as the hidden for one turn and lose because everyone else is better than you. It's kind of a turn-off when you die that people spam "noob" and laugh at you because you don't know how to play.

Granted, CS:S is a completely different type of FPS than Hidden, but there just isn't a big playerbase in Hidden because it's just a beta. Bots would give a person the ability to play whether people were on or not.

But as several people said, making the AI for bots would be extremely difficult.

Also, I noticed that someone mentioned a retail release. Is the dev team planning on releasing this game as a retail game in the distant future? With some gameplay fixes I think this would make a worthy secondary choice to counter-strike and day of defeat. What do you guys think?
The tutorials are there to teach the noobs the basics, however, I doubt any of them use it. If I know I'm playing against people who are new to the game, I give them tips, tell them what the hidden looks like, and I give them a chance to play. People did that for me, I think it's time to return the favour somehow.

#include<stdio.h>
21st September 2007, 17:36
I heard sometime, that it will be singleplayer mode of H:S:confused: Is it true?

Daedalus
21st September 2007, 17:46
I heard sometime, that it will be singleplayer mode of H:S:confused: Is it true?

Nope.