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Demented
30th July 2007, 01:05
Team-Specific Music
Easily said. The IRIS and the Hidden play a different game. Their styles are different, and their atmospheres are different. Why not have their music be different as well?
Pros:
+Atmosphere
+MOAR MUZIK!
Cons:
-Requires lots more music.
-Is it even possible?

_


IRIS Revival
Not easily said, and probably a gaming cliche by now. The IRIS die so easily, and so suddenly... Perhaps they could benefit from a second chance. In this case, there would be a way for IRIS to revive other dead IRIS, provided those IRIS are still "alive" in some way. Could help with fighting off those less tactful slash-crazy hiddens and/or lessen boredom for dead players (Ed: they won't be dead), or just make things more challenging. Might be a useful alternative to just switching a dead IRIS' transponder off, or a motivation to do so (Ed: "He's dead, Jim").
Exact mechanics may just be that IRIS who haven't been gibbed or drained completely of feedability can still be revived, and revived IRIS come back with respectably less health. Thus, overfeeding could have its uses for crueler hiddens, or pinning their catches to unreachable places.
Pros:
+More interesting.
+Easier for IRIS to recover.
+Pigstick comes into its own.
Cons:
-Probably much harder for the Hidden.
-Death is less of a penalty.
-Completely changes the game.
-Cliche. Who hasn't heard this suggestion for just about any team game, along with "It'll promote teamwork"?
-Requires gratuitous coding.
-Been there, done that, No'd it.

Paegus
30th July 2007, 07:17
IRIS Revival:
sounds suspiciously like medpacks to me :/
-limit the revivals so there's a max of 8 lives per round? those who die first get more of a chance... tough luck for those who don't.
-impose time limit on revival. if they waited too long (got distracted) they lose the opportunity. the longer you wait the less hp they have on revival.
-non-dead player view locked to their ragdoll and have it fade in and out slowly getting worse and worse until however long it takes them to die at which point it's black. then they can start spec caming
-no more than 20 hp (1 good phys hit) on revival
-no kill point for hidden until they bleed out so to speak. even after the round ends... because they're revived by the primary recovery team?
-pinning them above ground bleeds them out faster. say 10 seconds as opposed to 30. (can a ragdoll detect this?)
-only the supply packers can revive.. keke ^.^

TS Music:
yes please

i also want a marked visual difference but meh...

Ging
30th July 2007, 10:09
i also want a marked visual difference but meh...

A marked visual difference between music?

Daedalus
30th July 2007, 10:20
-limit the revivals so there's a max of 8 lives per round? those who die first get more of a chance... tough luck for those who don't.

Nah, I think he's meaning that each marine may only be revived once.

Oh yeah, make it so that a physkill prevents revival. It's hard enough for learning hiddens to do it, that would discourage them from attempting phys even more. :p

Cheesey
30th July 2007, 11:16
QFT

And if, only support-team should be able too, so there would be more people in this group maybe.

What about slashing after 617 killed the IRIS? Maybe he needs more HP, so if he slashes thos dead-looking IRIS he will BE dead.
617 will earn those 20 or 25 HP the IRIS would have if he was revived. But other IRIS will hear 617 eating....

There should not be a system telling the other IRIS, "Watch out, somewhere a buddy got killed, hurry!", its fine when they just hear/see it.... ;)

-SM-SUCKER
30th July 2007, 13:49
I like the idea with different music themes for IRIS and Hidden.
Don't like the revival thing, would change the balancing to much. And the devs would have to create a hole bunch of new animations or find another way to move the ragdoll into the right position.

P.S: Different threads for different ideas

Cheesey
30th July 2007, 14:46
Oh, I dont count on the revival thing. But this is the suggestion-thread, where we can talk about suggestions. Its nice to talk about those, but in the end I'll see what B5 brings ;)

The music thing sounds nice, but what kinda music would you choose for 617? I mean, IRIS have to be scared... so the music is scary. 617 is angry and so on, but I dont think such a music would fit...

Master of Puppets
30th July 2007, 14:50
I vote Kelly Family for hidden. You cant find anything more scary than that... :-P

Paegus
30th July 2007, 18:24
Nah, I think he's meaning that each marine may only be revived once.
possibly but i was referring more to the absolute maximum player count of 8 iris. as in...
if there's 7 iris then any 1 player who is KOed can be revived.
if there's 4 iris then there can be 4 revivals.
if there's 1 iris he's sool because there's no one to revive him.


Oh yeah, make it so that a physkill prevents revival. It's hard enough for learning hiddens to do it, that would discourage them from attempting phys even more. :p
idk... seems kinda counter intuitive to me. barring high damage hits (>20dmg) phys hits are often pretty meek. if you 'kill' someone with a 5~10dmg hit i'd call that KOed far quicker than being slashed viciously



A marked visual difference between music?
<_<
>_>

well the hidden 'hears' right? har har...

Diego
30th July 2007, 19:36
The hidden is angry ? Can't he be like happy maybe ? Could then have music like "My uncle Sam from jamaica" or something in the background :D Seriously, I think the music is just fine the way it is.

Ging
30th July 2007, 19:51
I'm not opposed to the idea of revivals - but it's definitely not a B5 idea!

khu
30th July 2007, 21:26
As a matter of fact, both ideas have been around for a while in internal team communications :)

I suggested a revival-based new mode that would last longer and involve the Hidden slowly sapping captured IRIS, with the possibility of IRIS recapturing/freeing their teammates by scaring off 617 before their blood had been completely sapped.

Different music for each side was considered by me as well, but initially dismissed as simply too time consuming for B3. The idea has been on back burner ever since then.

Paegus
30th July 2007, 21:36
is it possible to have different sounds play for the same events though? i could see someone having a lot of fun with that.


P.S: Different threads for different ideas

there already is one about it... (http://forum.hidden-source.com/showthread.php?t=7649)

Demented
30th July 2007, 22:38
I'm not opposed to the idea of revivals - but it's definitely not a B5 idea!

I vote B7 idea.
I don't want to wait 16 months for B6! =P


IRIS Revival:
sounds suspiciously like medpacks to me :/
-limit the revivals so there's a max of 8 lives per round? those who die first get more of a chance... tough luck for those who don't.
-impose time limit on revival. if they waited too long (got distracted) they lose the opportunity. the longer you wait the less hp they have on revival.
-non-dead player view locked to their ragdoll and have it fade in and out slowly getting worse and worse until however long it takes them to die at which point it's black. then they can start spec caming
-no more than 20 hp (1 good phys hit) on revival
-no kill point for hidden until they bleed out so to speak. even after the round ends... because they're revived by the primary recovery team?
-pinning them above ground bleeds them out faster. say 10 seconds as opposed to 30. (can a ragdoll detect this?)
-only the supply packers can revive.. keke ^.^
1. Medpacks? Are those in B5 or sumthin'?
2. Max 8 lives: Preserves game balance, but seems more like a band-aid for the game's current scaling issues. ...Has potential in that regard.
3. Maybe, maybe not. 2/5
4. Very neat idea... But I want to spectate while I wait! 2/5
5. I'd prefer health and feedability be related, but if it shaves a day off time-to-release, I'll take it. 4/5
6. I say we dump kill points overall! =P 5/5
7. Depends on 3... Interesting idea in concept, but in practice it would seem lackluster. 1/5
8. This ain't no RPG, bud! We shouldn't be defining "class roles" so specifically with things like revival, unless you want to make another Team-Based-FPS where everyone needs to pick different "classes". In my not-so-humble opinion, that is. 1/5

Daedalus
31st July 2007, 09:30
1. Medpacks? Are those in B5 or sumthin'?
6. I say we dump kill points overall! =P 5/5


1. Nah, medpacks were discussed before and they got a big no. This idea is different since the hidden has to feed off corpses or pin them to prevent the IRIS from reviving eachother.
6. A merit system like the one in left4dead would be spectacular. :D

tHe_HiDdEn_FaCe
12th August 2007, 17:18
The revival idea seems like a cool idea. The concept of having to go and "rescue" a fellow team mate completely opens up a new gameplay and adds a panic factor.
At the same time though, I'm not kean on the idea that the hidden is forced to pin bodies and feed off them. Also, most people wont want to revive their team mates at the cost of losing a chance to be the hidden next round - im refering to wasting time saving others when you could be hunting.

So, basically my general view is that revival just wont work. It's meant to be last man standing, and it would make it extremely hard for the hidden to win - if the hidden doesnt drain the body (i.e gaining no extra health) the iris can be revived. If he drains the body (i.e gaining more health) the iris doesnt come back. That's a lot of pressure on the hidden to drain all the bodies. If they dont, they will pretty much never win the round. I guess, it comes down to some testing to see how it would work in reality.

I prefer the idea that a non-drained IRIS can still observe around their body and report to their team mates.
Reviving will only wreck the gameplay. Nobody would be scared of dying.

I would like it if players were able to salvage ammo from their dead mates or something.

Paegus
12th August 2007, 17:24
since you're effectively doubling your immediate detection and fire-power, obviously you'd get quite a few weight points for reviving a teammate...

well doubling if there's only 2 of you. if there's 7 others then the increase isn't as big but it's still an increase. as for it being too hard for the hidden, that depends on the hidden. you average new player will get splattered anyway but with the least bit of know how the hidden can be extremely hard to take down as it is.

as for

I would like it if players were able to salvage ammo from their dead mates or something.

that's also in the works already. but may be attached to the now back-benched iris aura...

QReaper
12th August 2007, 17:30
I'm thinking that, along the lines of revivals, they should be something that you have to choose instead of say, a LAM or Flashlight, in that list of equipment, instead of provided to a class.

Ammunition distribution is one thing, but being able to revive a teammate is quite a "game breaker" if the Hidden is at 5 hp with one IRIS left, then he revives his dead buddy. Twice the firepower, full ammunition, and really, really pissed off about what just happened.

Paegus
12th August 2007, 17:37
he'd have just as much ammo as when he died... unless he loots a corpse.

though i really hope the ammo retrieval system is weapon dependant. as in if a f2k user tries to loot a fn303er's corpse, he gets sod all because you can't use the 303 pellets in an f2k...

Cheesey
12th August 2007, 20:28
though i really hope the ammo retrieval system is weapon dependant. as in if a f2k user tries to loot a fn303er's corpse, he gets sod all because you can't use the 303 pellets in an f2k...

Just imagine the 303-pellets with the speed of the F2k :D Everyone's blinded...

QReaper
13th August 2007, 06:31
he'd have just as much ammo as when he died... unless he loots a corpse.

though i really hope the ammo retrieval system is weapon dependant. as in if a f2k user tries to loot a fn303er's corpse, he gets sod all because you can't use the 303 pellets in an f2k...
I was talking about a Support. Being able to revive without the loss of a piece of equipment.

You could easily revive someone and stock them full of ammo with no penalties to your weapon accuracy(LAM) or ability to see in different circumstances (NV Goggles, Flashlight).

Paegus
13th August 2007, 06:35
i see your point.

but there has to be a limit so 1... err... hehe 'med pack' per player then? can't really limit it to the old supply guns (p90/303) since both the shotty and the f2k have been 'tweaked'

Demented
13th August 2007, 07:15
Since classes are out, it wouldn't be so bad to have the revive as one of the pack options. Obviously, each pack would only be 1/per... There's no reason to make it anymore, under any circumstance, since it would have to be as balanced (more or less) as the other packs.

If you did make it something greater than a pack option, it'd be... Equivalent to adding a new game mode. Could make Overrun more interesting. Oh, wait, no ragdolls in Overrun. Such a shame.

Ging
13th August 2007, 11:00
I was talking about a Support. Being able to revive without the loss of a piece of equipment.

You could easily revive someone and stock them full of ammo with no penalties to your weapon accuracy(LAM) or ability to see in different circumstances (NV Goggles, Flashlight).

I'm not entirely sure I know what you mean here - if support were able to revive, than they'd have already lost equipment by choosing to be support.

Paegus
13th August 2007, 13:14
but with the curent support role it's just a pack. it doesn't restrict your weapon choice or is that WIP?

i think he was refering more to the fact that this support class would be able to both revive AND restock the player's ammo... assuming he has any packs left.


though it shouldn't be that hard to just add yet another equip choice :S

Ging
13th August 2007, 13:33
but with the curent support role it's just a pack. it doesn't restrict your weapon choice or is that WIP?

i think he was refering more to the fact that this support class would be able to both revive AND restock the player's ammo... assuming he has any packs left.

I don't entirely see what's wrong with that - we'd probably end up saying that revives come from the same "stockpile" as ammo packs. It would also encourage 617 to move bodies to hard to reach places or just flat out destroy them. I suspect we'd say that a pinned body is completely dead.

Paegus
13th August 2007, 18:34
not to mention the conversion from 'dead' ragdoll to living player model...

Genre
13th August 2007, 20:40
You could always look at wolfenstein: Enemy territory for some ideas I guess. It's been ages since I've played the game, but when a player is severly injured (say, 10hp or less) they fall to the ground and wait <x number of seconds due to server variables> for a medic class to revive them. If time reaches 0 you die, tough luck. Enemies could also just kill you on the spot when you're waiting to be revived.

If you go by that system, then you'd need to create some prone animations, but I think it's do-able.

The hidden throws a pipebomb at a camper, he goes down waiting for help. Hidden has the choice of running in, slashing and finishing him off, or he could simply leave the IRIS.

Demented
13th August 2007, 22:11
In U2:XMP (never heard of it? I wouldn't be surprised), your character would just die. Revival was simply a matter of poking your teammate. He'd come back with about 10 health. Admittedly it was U2, so it was a death animation instead of ragdoll... But there was no rising animation. They just popped back up.



And I thought it was assumed that the Support class was gone. Utterly. Am I wrong?

Genre
13th August 2007, 23:38
Support is just picking alarms instead of LAM or flashlight.

starstriker1
14th August 2007, 00:01
Yes, support is gone. It's functionality is being put into an equipment selection instead, replacing the currently useless sonic alarm.

Paegus
14th August 2007, 06:38
eh? as far as i'm aware sonics aren't gone, they're just... err... broken right now. even if they are useless (without range data or something)

Daedalus
14th August 2007, 08:42
They have some use besides giving campers a false sense of security...

The last thing I remember about sonics is that they got placed in a support package along with the new ammo supply system.

starstriker1
14th August 2007, 18:26
1) I only said that the sonic alarm EQUIPMENT selection is being replaced. You know, the crappy one that only gave you a single alarm.
2) As far as I'm aware the support package isn't currently giving sonics. It might be planned for later, though, so don't quote me on that.

Paegus
14th August 2007, 19:14
i asked ging about it a while back (in irc iircbbq) and apparently it's just broken right now. ultimately the supply equip choice will give you 3 sonic and let you drop however many ammo packs.

TheChrist
13th September 2007, 19:25
Thermal goggles =)

Or as said in my thread "Gamma Goggles"!

This would also introduce... FACE CANCER!