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DvlStx
2nd June 2007, 13:22
Story: Subject-617 has been re-captured my the government, and is being studied. The government is looking for a less suspicious place to house the testing laboratory, (testing on invisible people in a maximum security area might attract the press), and had come upon a series of rooms and tunnels underneath this part of the bridge. The rooms seemed to have once been used for maintenence purposes, but are now abandoned. Perfect for testing in secret. Unfortunately, Subject-617 escaped from one of his testing chambers, (an area enclosed with electrified fence), and proceeded to slaughter all of the scientists in the chamber. He aquired his knife from one of the guards, and used the black powder from the sub-machiene guns rounds to make pipe-bombs. After killing, and partially consuming everyone in the compound, 617 escaped through the air-ducts and onto the road. While his eyes were still ajusting to the noon-time sun, he wandered into the path of a truck. When the driver stopped to get out, (wondering why blood just spattered from nothing,) he was grabbed by Subject-617 and taken down into the compound. Shortly after, he was eaten by 617. After radio contact was lost with the compound, and several eye-witness reports came in about a mysterious assault on a trucker by a 'nearly invisable man', the I.R.I.S. were called in to check it out. While 617 was still injured, he hid inside the compound, to weak to run away. The I.R.I.S. came in the middle of the night, while 617 was sleeping, and sealed off the area.




---------------------------------------------
6-10 Okay, Today, I'm going to displace the wall in the service tunnel, fix up the pillars, and make the catwalk and ladders. Should have pics up today.

6-11 Right. I had a sleepover with my friends, then went to NY. Oops. Well, there is definetaly enough for pics now, they'll be here in a couple minutes. Just need to tweak some stuff and recompile. (gaaaa, 1.5 hours!!! Does anyone know what can make a small map compile so slow?! ) Anyway, pics are up!! Please, leave feedback. OH! this first build is done, if anyone wants to help beta test this, *cough, cheezy, cough* email me at the address above, or leave a response in this thread. Your feedback, no matter how negative, *Paegus*, is important to making this better.

6-14 Yes!! Okay, I've optimized, and switched the level into the nighttime, which I think adds a creepier feeling than broad daylight. This is also good for 617, who will have more places to hide (dark corners). I can't figure out how to get the light_glow sprites to come up for the IRIS truck. *boxy* I'll check hammer, might have accidentally deleted them or something like that. This weekend, I hope to add the vents, ledge, and boards. (see the sketches) Then the first build should be ready for beta testing. Cheezy, if you're still interested, post a reply in here. We can work on a time and day to test it. (it's getting kinda boring fighting the bots with zombie-like IQ's)

6-18 Decided to add a basement/sewers like center underneath the part of the level that's already dones Oh, and there's a story with it now. (see top of post) Imageshack is in a bad mood, and wont let me upload my basement sketch. I'll try later.
---------------------------------------------
Sketches: These are my sketches. They are so badly drawn / scanned that if you tell me what the captions say on Floor 1 I'll personally priority mail you a cookie.
(good luck)

Basement/Compound --
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/6128/hdnlowerlevelbasementdk6.th.jpg (http://img515.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hdnlowerlevelbasementdk6.jpg)


Floor 1 --
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/3238/hdnlowerlevelfloor1mp7.th.jpg (http://img369.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hdnlowerlevelfloor1mp7.jpg)


Floor 2 --
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/8540/hdnlowerlevelfloor2zk0.th.jpg (http://img369.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hdnlowerlevelfloor2zk0.jpg)


Floor 3(aka the part you cant get to) --
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/698/hdnlowerlevelfloor3io8.th.jpg (http://img369.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hdnlowerlevelfloor3io8.jpg)


-------------------------------------------

In-game pics:
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/6487/hdnlowerlevel0008ba0.th.jpg (http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hdnlowerlevel0008ba0.jpg)
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/3341/hdnlowerlevel0009hl4.th.jpg (http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hdnlowerlevel0009hl4.jpg)
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/473/hdnlowerlevel0010xt9.th.jpg (http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hdnlowerlevel0010xt9.jpg)

Paegus
2nd June 2007, 14:22
seriously though you've already made a thread (http://forum.hidden-source.com/showthread.php?t=8342) about this and STILL no pics.

DvlStx
3rd June 2007, 01:11
seriously though you've already made a thread (http://forum.hidden-source.com/showthread.php?t=8342) about this and STILL no pics.

Yea, but... Oh. I see. And there's no pics because there's nothing worth showing. Like, nothingnothing. So, if you want, I can just go back to the old crappy, thread. Or we can use this shiny new one :D

Zabiela
3rd June 2007, 04:12
And you should have put WIP in the title... I got all excited for a new custom getting released. :o

Cheesey
3rd June 2007, 11:31
And you should have put WIP in the title... I got all excited for a new custom getting released. :o

Me too :( ;)

DvlStx
3rd June 2007, 14:08
Well, an admin put it in for me. So is anyone gonna be positive about this, or just flame all of my efforts. (this is what normally happens when I post something);)

Ging
3rd June 2007, 16:53
So is anyone gonna be positive about this

There's nothing to be positive about - all you've done is said you're working on a map, twice... Post some screen shots or something else that people can look at if you want any form of real feedback.

DvlStx
3rd June 2007, 23:13
Yea, only I haven't finished enough to post pics. I have finals I need to study for too, but they'll be done soon enough. AFter them, I'll crack down on the map.

Zabiela
4th June 2007, 00:14
So is anyone gonna be positive about this, or just flame all of my efforts. (this is what normally happens when I post something);)

In this case you're pretty much victimizing yourself. WIP thread mostly never go anywhere, so dont expect too much. You have to feed the people things they want to eat- screenshots, and work.

Oh and dude, never put your actual email address in a post. Spambots scan posts for email addresses and then start sending them crap when they find them. Instead put it as josh123[at]gmail[dot]com or something similar.

Demented
4th June 2007, 00:40
Yea, only I haven't finished enough to post pics. I have finals I need to study for too, but they'll be done soon enough. AFter them, I'll crack down on the map.
You don't need to be "finished" to post pictures.

Post hammer pictures.
Post pictures of the general layout, or your crappy brushwork, or just a neat aspect of a room you're planning. There's more to posting screenshots than just showing off what you can make. Mappers love to see how other mappers make maps.
The only time you need to show screenshots of a "final" product is if you have a professional appearance that you need to protect, and you know there's fifty-dozen raving lunatic fanboys hammering your website that expect you to show off a near-finished build and call it 'beta'.

Barring that, just ask questions about ideas, plans, opinions on how to do something, optimization, etc.. There's a heck of a lot to post about, really.

DvlStx
4th June 2007, 01:05
Okay, I'll put my sketchs up, as for ideas, think half tunnel, half entrance ramp (to a bridge), and please, please suggest something. I'm busy for the next 2 weeks with finals, but I'll try to get pics up. Just keep in mind, I'm new to mapping. First big project, and I need all the advice I can get.
Oh, and thanks for the email tip.

Cheesey
4th June 2007, 17:30
If you load up some pictures, we might be able to help you about the arrangement of the things you put in the map or tell you, what you can do better, etc. Don't stress yourself, we'll await it...

Try to prevent camping-spots, like narrow places you just can reach from one direction, area under stairways, vents (try to make them just accessible by 617 or use the *no-IRIS* command, I just forgot ;)

Try to build at least 3 ways into a room.

Have a nice week ;)

DvlStx
4th June 2007, 19:09
Okay, just remember, this is half-tunnel, half-bridge. There arent rooms, really, there's just up, (of which there is posibly three floors) and some vents. I'll post my sketchs up now, with captions so you can understand my insane scribblings.
BuhBye :D
PS, Thanks Cheezy, for some real possitive feedback. Nice to see something... not angry? Yea, I think that's it.

Paegus
4th June 2007, 19:42
no rooms? hmm well hopefully we'll get more than 2 fps :S

DvlStx
4th June 2007, 23:31
Why, do rooms = greater fps? Or am I just being stupid again. I don't know how layout effects performance, but it runs fine on my crappy computer so far.

Demented
5th June 2007, 01:29
The game only renders what you can see.

If you're in a room, you only see the room and whatever other rooms you can see through doorways and windows.

In large areas, or rooms with very large windows, more gets rendered.

DvlStx
5th June 2007, 11:11
Okay, thanks. Well, I hope this wont lagg to badly. But like I said, it runs fine on my crappy computer.

Cheesey
5th June 2007, 18:14
Okay, thanks. Well, I hope this wont lagg to badly. But like I said, it runs fine on my crappy computer.

Maybe I got you wrong, but you also said, there are just models in Hammer without texture...:confused:

If you are done with the finals, just post some pics or let some of us beta-test the map (*wannado*), before you post the downloadlink!

;)

DvlStx
5th June 2007, 19:05
Maybe I got you wrong, but you also said, there are just models in Hammer without texture...:confused:

If you are done with the finals, just post some pics or let some of us beta-test the map (*wannado*), before you post the downloadlink!

;)

Okay. I never said that all there is are models. And how do you make models without texture? As for testing, there's still a long way to go before that. Maybe soon, tho. :)
Oh, and I'll be done with finals next week (YES)

Cheesey
5th June 2007, 19:42
Okay. I never said that all there is are models. And how do you make models without texture? As for testing, there's still a long way to go before that. Maybe soon, tho. :)
Oh, and I'll be done with finals next week (YES)

Nice to hear. So we might expect some pix next week. Cool :)!

I'm not in Hammer, I don't know how to do a map, but I also have seen some hammer-pix, where no texture is on the models (maybe I use a wrong word?!). Then they appear grey or orange or something like that. Whatever, doesn't matter ;)

DvlStx
5th June 2007, 21:20
You mean brushes. No, I use textures on mine. Mostly concrete, but they're there.
PS, brushes are the world. like, ground, walls, etc. Models are the stuff that hidden can throw.:rolleyes:

DvlStx
6th June 2007, 01:33
Sooo, any ideas from the sketches? Or is everyone hellbent on pics.

Demented
6th June 2007, 01:54
Oh, didn't bother to check the first page! <_<


Sketches: These are my sketches. They are so badly drawn / scanned that if you tell me what the captions say on Floor 1 I'll personally priority mail you a cookie.
(good luck)

Floor 1 --
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/3238/hdnlowerlevelfloor1mp7.th.jpg (http://img369.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hdnlowerlevelfloor1mp7.jpg)

From the left!
"Burn Burn Burn Burn
"IRIS
"Floor 1
"Truck
"Ladder
"Rock Texture
"Pillars
"o = iris spawn
"(square)(triangle) = hidden spawn
"vent in ceiling
"cars
"Ladder
"Fire
"Breakable
"Oil
"Fire Fire Fire Fire Rubble
"Broken Gass pipe"


Cookie! :D

Isolation
6th June 2007, 09:25
This is supposed to be GW, right? The third floor sketch you have there seems... out of place. I don't recall crossbeams on the bridge...

http://images.google.com/images?um=1&tab=wi&hl=en&q=George&#37;20Washington%20Bridge

Though, to be honest, it has been one year plus since I had my version built...

EDIT: Otherwise, it looks like a sound design. Can't wait to see the map proper.

DvlStx
6th June 2007, 12:21
This is supposed to be GW, right? The third floor sketch you have there seems... out of place. I don't recall crossbeams on the bridge...

http://images.google.com/images?um=1&tab=wi&hl=en&q=George%20Washington%20Bridge

Though, to be honest, it has been one year plus since I had my version built...

EDIT: Otherwise, it looks like a sound design. Can't wait to see the map proper.

This is loosly based on the entrance ramp for it. There are in fact cross beams on the entrance ramp. Not on the actuall bridge, tho. Look on the front page for ingame pics soon!

Cheesey
6th June 2007, 15:00
You mean brushes. No, I use textures on mine. Mostly concrete, but they're there.
PS, brushes are the world. like, ground, walls, etc. Models are the stuff that hidden can throw.:rolleyes:

Thanks ;) Didn't know the word, now i do :)

DvlStx
6th June 2007, 18:58
No problem.

DvlStx
10th June 2007, 14:05
Oh, didn't bother to check the first page! <_<



From the left!
"Burn Burn Burn Burn
"IRIS
"Floor 1
"Truck
"Ladder
"Rock Texture
"Pillars
"o = iris spawn
"(square)(triangle) = hidden spawn
"vent in ceiling
"cars
"Ladder
"Fire
"Breakable
"Oil
"Fire Fire Fire Fire Rubble
"Broken Gass pipe"


Cookie! :D

crap, man! I can barely read these. What kind of cookie do you want, and where do you live xD

DvlStx
12th June 2007, 01:29
PICS ARE UPPPP. PLEASE LEAVE A COMMENT, AND FOR GOD SAKES, CHECK THE FRONT PAGE MORE OFTEN NOW!! THIS PROJECT IS FINNALLY GAINING MOMENTUM (in terms of how much i work on it)
Peace out.

Boat Builder
12th June 2007, 02:29
Looking nifty sir.

I like that pile of cars ;) hehe.

From a gameplay perspective, i'd reconsider having such a skinny place, (the first picture) it's just begging to be camped.

It'll probably look a much nicer when you drop some lights in there.

Well i gotta go, but keep up the nifty work. Hope to see something playable soon!

cheers.

Isolation
12th June 2007, 07:46
PICS ARE UPPPP. PLEASE LEAVE A COMMENT, AND FOR GOD SAKES, CHECK THE FRONT PAGE MORE OFTEN NOW!! THIS PROJECT IS FINNALLY GAINING MOMENTUM (in terms of how much i work on it)
Peace out.

Take some advice from someone who has an actual mapping "blog" here: don't ever expect people to check he first page. Post when something is new. I do it, Boxy does it with his map dev threads, Fluffy/Subface does it. Necro does not really count, nor does double posting so long as progress/news comes along. I'm sure the powers that be prefer a single thread over lots of single ones, so updating is a good thing (but, guys, if I'm wrong, correct me).

As for the map... well, let me go check the first page first ;)

Edit: Lookin' good. Can't wait for compiled screens. Only 'complaint' I have is with how much fire you have. Makes my particular CPU cringe.

Ging
12th June 2007, 10:30
Yeah, it's easier if you just post new pictures in a new thread - means people viewing the thread can find them much, much easier.

DvlStx
12th June 2007, 19:13
Looking nifty sir.

I like that pile of cars ;) hehe.

From a gameplay perspective, i'd reconsider having such a skinny place, (the first picture) it's just begging to be camped.

It'll probably look a much nicer when you drop some lights in there.

Well i gotta go, but keep up the nifty work. Hope to see something playable soon!

cheers.

Thanks, but whats wierd is that I did put in lights, (which is why it isn't extraordinarily dark) But it compiled them wrong, as they weren't supposed to light up the WHOLE tunnel, *grumble*
As for Isolation,

Can't wait to see it compiled
This is compiled. It just took forever, and maxed out my CPU when it hit PortalVisFlow. Never happened to me before. Is this just because the map is big, or is it something else? Help would be apprieciated.

Isolation
12th June 2007, 20:18
This is compiled. It just took forever, and maxed out my CPU when it hit PortalVisFlow. Never happened to me before. Is this just because the map is big, or is it something else? Help would be apprieciated.

I meant a full compile, with lighting and all that. And how long is forever? Mobscene, one of the larger HS maps, takes roughly 40 minutes, which seems to be normal when you have a lot of structure going on coupled with large open areas. Do you have anything set to being func_detail? If not, that might be an issue.

Demented
12th June 2007, 21:26
Hah, yeah, you're gonna need to learn optimisation...


Also, that's not lighting, that's fullbright, which happens with no lighting. Probably due to an error in the compile.

DvlStx
12th June 2007, 21:44
I meant a full compile, with lighting and all that. And how long is forever? Mobscene, one of the larger HS maps, takes roughly 40 minutes, which seems to be normal when you have a lot of structure going on coupled with large open areas. Do you have anything set to being func_detail? If not, that might be an issue.

Okay, so do I set brushes to func_detail? Oh, yea. I found that I just aborted the compile before it got to lighting :p, now that I recompiled, it lagges BADDddd.d.... Will repositioning the sunlight (light_enviroment or something like that) so that there is more shadow help?? I need some tips for keeping it high quality, but also squeezing the best possible fps out of it. Help, anyone?

Hah, yeah, you're gonna need to learn optimisation...


Also, that's not lighting, that's fullbright, which happens with no lighting. Probably due to an error in the compile.

Yes, I do need to learn optimization. And yes, that's fullbright, because i aborted the compile before it reached lighting. *see above thread*

Isolation
12th June 2007, 21:53
Well, it sounds somewhat normal to me. Maybe you just have too much open area (such as a huge ass skybox encasement). If all else fails, you can just copy/paste the compile log (and maybe some in-hammer screen captures) and someone here can tell you if there are any errors.

Demented
12th June 2007, 22:19
The only optimization most maps will ever need (http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Optimization_%28Geometry%29).
Of course, it's a lot to soak in...

If you get stuck, you could try asking for more help at some mapping sites. Or you could ask here... Though we don't exactly have a diverse set of skilled mappers.

DvlStx
12th June 2007, 22:36
Well, it sounds somewhat normal to me. Maybe you just have too much open area (such as a huge ass skybox encasement). If all else fails, you can just copy/paste the compile log (and maybe some in-hammer screen captures) and someone here can tell you if there are any errors.

I'll check, but I'm pretty sure that my sky is shrinking everytime I compile. (I notice areas outside of player_clips, etc.) But bear in mind that at almost every given time, the whole map is visible from anywhere. (dam visleafs. :P)
So this is probably amounting to lag.
Also, correct if this is wrong, but changing things like pillars, grates, etc to func_detail will cut visleafs, and compile time? But will this increase fps?? I started a optimization tutorial, but only got so far... I'll try some func_details, and cut back on Flourescant_flicker lights. Oh, and fire, i'll cut some of the fire out too. Thanks for your help and support so far!! :D

EDIT: Isolation!! You map, correct? Okay, can I copy my map file and email it to you, or put it on filefront or something, have you look at it? I have never made a real map before, I don't know what'll be good, or not. Just quote this in a reply, please.

Ging
13th June 2007, 01:05
Dynamic lighting effects won't do you much good in terms of performance, nor will being able to see the rest of the map from anywhere - you need to find someway of cutting the map into more manageable sections so you can optimise on vis.

Isolation
13th June 2007, 05:39
The rule of thumb I was taught was that anything that does not block "the void", or vis, is not a wall, ceiling or floor, it's to be a func_detail, or some other brush entity.

But, if I'm wrong, please Boxy, Fluffy or someone correct me.

Example:
With Mobscene, here's the map "normal":
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/5007/normalpt1.th.jpg (http://img166.imageshack.us/my.php?image=normalpt1.jpg)

And here's the map with all the func_details (not seen: interiors) turned off:
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/189/funcdetailgz8.th.jpg (http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=funcdetailgz8.jpg)

A bit of a difference to be sure. Anything that acts like a detail in the map, should probably BE a detail. I can take a look at the map, just upload somewhere and PM me and I'll try to see what I can find (but, I can't guarantee anything, as today was the first time I opened Hammer in like 2 or 3 months)...

Boxy
13th June 2007, 07:51
The rule of thumb I was taught was that anything that does not block "the void", or vis, is not a wall, ceiling or floor, it's to be a func_detail, or some other brush entity.

But, if I'm wrong, please Boxy, Fluffy or someone correct me.

As a rule of thumb yeah I'd go with that. There are exceptions to the rule as with anything in this world but as a general guide that is the point, abuse that func_detail.

DvlStx
13th June 2007, 19:13
I can take a look at the map, just upload somewhere and PM me and I'll try to see what I can find (but, I can't guarantee anything, as today was the first time I opened Hammer in like 2 or 3 months)...

Well, I optimized a bit, it now compiles much faster, but now when I run the map I get 'Could not Create the 3D Driver' or something close to that. Also, I dont know what kind of fps I will get on this, so if I can't increase my fps, I'll turn it over to Isolation for help. If he will help in the first place :)

Isolation
13th June 2007, 19:51
That's an error I've never seen... mostly because a quick search makes it look like you have out of date video card drivers (apparently). Go see if you can update chipset/graphics cards then try again.

Also, I said I'd try to help, you just need to upload the map and PM me the link :cool:

DvlStx
13th June 2007, 20:01
Yea, but it only happened once. Now it just freezes up on 'Loading Resources' in the loading menu. (in game)

Cheesey
14th June 2007, 17:27
Just have seen the pics, except of the light, this long narrow way seems a bit tooooo long ;)

DvlStx
14th June 2007, 19:19
Don't worry. There will be a vent in the cieling for the hidden to escape from, the pics are also in mat_fullbright, my bad. But I've decided to go with a night-time setup now, lots of dark corners for 617 to hide in. I'll try to get new pics up, but my computer has been locking up when I try to load the map. (more specifically when the loading bar [in-game] reaches 'loading resources'.) I have one more trick up my sleeve before i send someone else the vmf and see if they can get it running.

DvlStx
14th June 2007, 19:49
Update on the front page!! there are new pics and news up, so what are you waiting for!! GO BUY FIVE NOW!!!

Cheesey
14th June 2007, 19:59
Grrrrr *going-to-page-one* *open-image-links* *going-back-here*

Nice pics, looks a lot better with the light. But I still think this narrow way is a bit tooo long....

keep on working :)

Isolation
14th June 2007, 20:17
Very sexyfull lighting compared to the first non-lit pictures.

Boat Builder
14th June 2007, 20:33
Lookin' pretty hot! :cool:

Like sir Cheesey, i still think you may run into some gameplay issues with such a long narrow space, but still, looks much nicer.

DvlStx
14th June 2007, 21:41
Grrrrr *going-to-page-one* *open-image-links* *going-back-here*

Nice pics, looks a lot better with the light. But I still think this narrow way is a bit tooo long....

keep on working :)

Lookin' pretty hot! :cool:

Like sir Cheesey, i still think you may run into some gameplay issues with such a long narrow space, but still, looks much nicer.

Okay, okay. I'll shorten the hallway. But do you know how long it took to line up all the damn textures after I carved that?! DO YOU?!?!


Very sexyfull lighting compared to the first non-lit pictures.

Thank you. Good news! The fps is back up now that light_enviroment is gone :D

Demented
14th June 2007, 21:45
Okay, okay. I'll shorten the hallway. But do you know how long it took to line up all the damn textures after I carved that?! DO YOU?!?!

You, you c-car... carv-blurcurbur*twitch*seizure*

DvlStx
14th June 2007, 21:51
What else should I do?

Isolation
14th June 2007, 21:59
Most people do everything "by hand", that is, if you're making a door for example, rather than carving using a block on a single wall, just manually build the three wall sections needed instead. Carve can be problematic.

DvlStx
14th June 2007, 23:18
Ah, I see. Carve has the tendency to make much for brushes than you need. I'll rebuild the wall and move the hole farther over.

Cheesey
15th June 2007, 18:07
Okay, okay. I'll shorten the hallway. But do you know how long it took to line up all the damn textures after I carved that?! DO YOU?!?!

Nope! :D

I just thought about the gameplay, even if there is a vent, it will be a deathtrap....

DvlStx
15th June 2007, 21:07
So, the hidden can pop in, toss a nade, pop out. The IRIS wont stand a chance, like the vents in stalkyard.

DvlStx
18th June 2007, 19:56
Check the front page, there's been an update. Now there's a story, and later, once imageshack is feeling better, i'll have my basement sketch posted.

BASEMENT/COMPOUND SKETCH!!!! :D
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/6128/hdnlowerlevelbasementdk6.th.jpg (http://img515.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hdnlowerlevelbasementdk6.jpg)

In hopes of creating an enclosed area, (better fps), and to add a scary section. Oh, and i just thought that it was too small of a map.