PDA

View Full Version : Plastic Sheeting...



Subface Normal
21st May 2007, 20:21
Okay, so here's the plan. Scratch and I are hard at work on thirdrail and we came across a little idea that can limit visibility and make hidden movement interesting. What we want to do is create a sheet of plastic (prop_ragdoll model) that dangles from the ceiling. It'd be much like the sheets you see in Splinter Cell, just they're freely dangling. You dont have to cut them to go through them. Something we'd like for the dev team to consider is possibly endorsing this idea by helping us prevent the borking of player movement when running into the entity (prop_fabric custom ragdoll ent that doesnt apply any physics on the player?)

Basically, we're afraid that if we have these sheets dangling in a room and the hidden leaps into it that its going to stop the hidden dead in his tracks. The opposite is that maybe it's going to stop IRIS trying to run through it. We basically want a free movement through the sheet (that basically has the same effect as Splinter Cell... you hit it, it slides over your head and you can sort of see the shape of the player below it)

This material will really help out with changing up gameplay (in a mappers preference) and can add an IRIS/Hidden trap in HEX maps, depending on which team uses it to their advantage.

A good IRIS will be able to notice when the hidden is running through it and it semi-gives away his location. A good hidden will use these sheets to split up IRIS members within the material and can even throw other phys props into it to distract IRIS from the other side of the barrier. Any thoughts?

Isolation
21st May 2007, 20:27
When I first this style of design in Hitman 2, I wanted to add it to maps for the longest time. If done properly, just imagine 617 bursting out from behind the sheet, scaring the hell out of everyone...

Uh... but that's a comment, not a thought per se. Hopefully, this is something that can be accomplished.

Boxy
21st May 2007, 21:23
The leaked alpha of HL2 had a similar object in it. Do you remember the phystown map where the player went in the house and then the combine shot through the windows at the player on the first floor? The windows had blinds dangling down which rocked about when shot. I can't remember if the player could push through them.

However, it was a simple model, more than likely attached by a phys_balljoint to the top frame of the window. Give the model a 0.1 mass multiplier so it very light (or make the model have no mass at creation time) and give the balljoint very little or no friction and you should have something like what you are looking for. No entity creation required. Work with what you got kids.

Subface Normal
21st May 2007, 21:28
I remember that model. I was almost tempted to use something similar myself. The issue is that we're working the map out to be a subway station "under rennovation" and we'd like to use something like those sheets to break up the level. I know we can make the model for it, just the problem lays in the fact that players will touch the model and will get stopped (no matter the mass of the object)

There's just no stopping this from happening... It's like when IRIS tripped on those little cans outside of spawn in stalkyard... it's small and insignificant, but it causes issues. The only issue is that we cant use the sheets as debris, the player HAS to walk through them...

scratch
21st May 2007, 21:39
My main concern about this idea is that the movement of the player possibly becomes unpredictable as seen when touching prop_physics in multiplayer. Also, for prop_physics the weight doesn't make a difference in regards to the unpredictability of movement, dunno about friction though.

Demented
21st May 2007, 21:41
You can't set the model to collide with the player, but not obstruct his movement.
You can only make it debris so it won't collide with the player, period, but that's all.

As far as coding it... sh'yeah right!
At best bet, look to see if it's already done for an entity/model and posted on a HL2 coding forum. If you're lucky, you can draw the team's attention to that. But expecting them to do it all by their lonesome? Spare some spare time? <_<
Edit: Or get a whip. That usually works best. >=D

Depending on how debris physics reacts to normal physics stuff... You could have triggers that phys_push the ragdoll whenever someone walks into it, but that cheap effect is about as good as it gets.

Subface Normal
21st May 2007, 21:54
Yeah... I figured it'd either take a lot of support behind this idea, or cheating in some way or another. Scratch and I agreed that we'd see how this would work with a cheap model first, and try to see how we can cheat around it if things dont work out... We'll post up on this if we solve the issue.


We may model the sheet as normal and see if it interacts with the player in a working manner. I figure that most of the issues with the player getting stopped by light phys objects is that the object creates an outrageous friction number between itself and the ground... and it basically becomes a 2 inch wall for the player. We'll see how it works out

Ging
21st May 2007, 22:49
I'm happy to have a poke around - but I can't guarantee when that'll happen.

Subface Normal
21st May 2007, 23:13
Well the only issue that we have with the ragdoll entity and using it in this manner is that the phys props will exert phys data back on the player. I'm pretty sure there's a way to remove this and make sure that the phys prop is the only thing taking the energy of the force without slowing down the player. (atleast without slowing him down to where it's like having a wall in front of him when there really isnt)

It's completely up to the Dev team as to whether it's wanted or not, but I'll see what we can do first before you try changing code or anything. ;)

scratch
22nd May 2007, 01:16
The other issue is that i first need to do a load of other models and then read a tutorial on how to make ragdolls. lol.

Subface Normal
22nd May 2007, 02:13
Yeah... sorry to load you with so many... I just got all these ideas coming to me now. lol

Paegus
22nd May 2007, 08:01
if it where up to me i'd make it debris and then try stacking several triggers on either side. and one in the middle. when the outter ones are triggered you get a small push, when the inner one is triggered you get a bigger push and then if the outter one on the opposite side is triggered you get the really big push. that way each trigger's output would depend on the sequence.

Demented
22nd May 2007, 09:31
Awfully complicated for such a small feature, Paegus. =P
Be so much easier if you could temporarily parent an anti-magnet to players temporarily. Of course, it wouldn't look much better. It's just easy that way.

Hence, if I were coding the entity, that'd be my first try.
But map-based, nah. Easy is best. I'm lazy.

Subface Normal
22nd May 2007, 21:24
I agree with demented. I think the easiest method to fix the issue would be to change the coding. Think of it this way: A new entity (prop_curtain) is the exact same as prop_ragdoll except it doesnt exert a force back on the player. This means the player can move as fast as he'd like through the curtain and it's the curtain that reacts... not the player

However, I would like the player to slow down atleast a little bit, so I'm trying this modelwise first. I dont think anyone's tried to make something like this before so I think since it's a hanging prop and not a prop on the ground it might do what I'd like it to. I'll fill you guys in later with a movie maybe ;)

lcpuche
23rd May 2007, 14:08
The leaked alpha of HL2 had a similar object in it. Do you remember the phystown map where the player went in the house and then the combine shot through the windows at the player on the first floor? The windows had blinds dangling down which rocked about when shot. I can't remember if the player could push through them.

However, it was a simple model, more than likely attached by a phys_balljoint to the top frame of the window. Give the model a 0.1 mass multiplier so it very light (or make the model have no mass at creation time) and give the balljoint very little or no friction and you should have something like what you are looking for. No entity creation required. Work with what you got kids.

thats going in my notes :D