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Night Raider
20th May 2007, 07:42
So, I've had some ideas on how to improve the mod's gameplay. The first is a new hidden ability which might come in handy in many situations. The second is an addition which may improve gameplay by giving players a reason to stick together instead of running around solo.

Hidden Pipebomb Traps
The hidden gets a secondary use for pipebombs, he can set them on walls very much the same as sonic alarms. By using secondary fire near a wall, the hidden places the pipebomb on the wall, and after a few seconds a thin black wire appears from the pipebomb to the opposite wall of the pipebomb. The black wire could be seen by both 617 and the IRIS, but it should be thin enough as to make it somewhat hard to see. Acting much like a sonic grenade, the pipebomb would be 'tripped' when someone, or something, touches the black wire. However, this is a dual choice for the hidden, since it has both it's strenghts and it's flaws.

STRENGTHS
The hidden can now set pipebombs to prevent IRIS from rushing in hex_ maps.

The hidden can place traps in order to make things a bit easier for him, by covering a door or hallway.

WEAKNESSES
The Hidden loses one of his precious pipebombs.
IRIS players can see the wire, and could shoot the pipebomb from a distance, making it detonate without hurting them.
A clumsy hidden could trip his own trap.





IRIS Fear/Heavy Breathing
Currently, IRIS prefer to run in the maps alone, since it means that they have a larger chance of killing the Hidden without teammates getting in the way. It's very unrealistic, since a team of highly trained mercenaries probably wouldn't split up, but instead work as a team in order to neutralize the enemy. Players need an incentive to stick together, which they currently lack. So, now comes this new feature.

When players are hit by the Hidden to 66 hp (Which translates to a single slash with the knife.) The game calculates how many teammates are in your nearby vicinity. If there's none, then a low breathing sound starts. This breathing sound grows louder the more a player takes damage. However, there is a way to stop this annoying sound (which other players, including the hidden, can hear.) You can either get slashed near a teammate and the sound won't start, or you can get close to a teammate while the sound is playing to make it stop. This translates to the IRIS member feeling scared when being attacked by the hidden all alone, and feeling safe when there's a buddy nearby. So, players might start moving around in two man groups, or even as a whole team, in order to avoid this sound which distracts them from the necessary listening component of the game. It could also create intense moments when you are the last man of your team, breathing heavily, and with the hidden pouncing all around you getting ready for the last slash...



Questions and comments welcome!

Isolation
20th May 2007, 07:52
Like the idea of a hidden trip bomb, indifferent to the fear idea for the simple fact that it seems to just add a layer of depth that looks unneeded.

Demented
20th May 2007, 08:32
The fear idea sounds more irritating than discouraging to player running around solo. It would make a nice atmospheric touch, just, not as a tool for enforcing behavior. Players hate that.

The pipebomb...bomb, eh. The tripwire just makes it another sonic trip alarm. Repetitive feature alert!
That's not mentioning that, for a guy who's entire theme is running around blind and gutting stuff like a fish, laying out bombs seems a little complicated for him. Too slow-paced for his fast-paced action.

Paegus
20th May 2007, 10:47
for the bomb bit i'd probable prefer to have the wire be placed manually.
for logic reasons you place the start wire first with the right click then you place the explosive somewhere else with a second right-click. than you can wait by the start wire for the iris to be in position while you're out of range and trip it.

but i do think the hidden attacks should all have some audible quality to them to alert the iris to incoming threats. be that a bounce or a primer sound.

the iris fear is atmospheric and all that but i can't say i'm a fan of having some assumed state of mind shoved down my throat... or ears. but solely for the team-play's sake i'd probably like to see it or something similar in action. personally i'm a fan of no personal kill/deaths on the scoreboard. but i'm sure some of us at least are familiar with how well that goes down with the general populous. i'm sure it wouldn't be hard to have some sort of weighting benefit implemented instead. basically phaedrus' teamplay/group event script idea that checks to see if you're within a certain distance from other iris and you accrue weighting points simply for being so. the more players you're near the faster you get points. calibrate it round-to-round based on active player count and round-time so you get some max bonus (say 50) if you were in the group for some majority of the round and every iris survives the entire round. as they die off the amount of weighting other players can get is reduced by however much that player provided (because they didn't work as a team and watch each other's back). then maybe just have their accumulated weighting points (/100?) as IRIS show up as their score instead of kills and deaths.

Felf
20th May 2007, 16:40
I've seen talk of exploding sonics around the forums, and like them, pipe-traps inspire a sense of foreboding in me. I don't like the idea at all - I feel it would detract from the fast, furious action of Hidden... imo.

As for heavy breathing... It was discussed a while ago that perhaps a slight "fear" effect could take hold at certain points (like being hit, physics props exploding, teammates firing etc)... Alot of people didn't like the idea, but I think it could be useful - but in a limited fashion. It should be "annoying" as such... just a nice ambient effect. Definitely not for behaviour enforcement.

starstriker1
20th May 2007, 20:13
Tripwire bombs would be crazy nice for HEX...

Doomsiren
21st May 2007, 11:12
i would rather have somekind of spidersense. although i don't know how that would work or be implented in the game

Mr. Bottomhat
21st May 2007, 14:10
i would rather have somekind of spidersense. although i don't know how that would work or be implented in the game
I have an idea: what if hidden could see hte "aura" of an iris thorugh a wall. This would make it harder for iris to just camp behind corners or hide. To balance it the "aura vision" could drain stamina and only be used when standing still.

Also, as an extra polish 617 could determine the aprox. health of the iris by the color of the aura, this is probably extra fluff though and will take too much effort to implement.

Daedalus
21st May 2007, 16:04
I have an idea: what if hidden could see hte "aura" of an iris thorugh a wall. This would make it harder for iris to just camp behind corners or hide. To balance it the "aura vision" could drain stamina and only be used when standing still.

Also, as an extra polish 617 could determine the aprox. health of the iris by the color of the aura, this is probably extra fluff though and will take too much effort to implement.

Holy shit that's awesome, why didn't the devs think of this? :eek:

The only way I could see a spidersense working is if the hidden's vision/crosshair would change a little bit when a marine has his sights centered on him.

starstriker1
21st May 2007, 18:45
Ah, sarcasm. Gotta love it.

Niar
29th May 2007, 23:56
The fear idea sounds more irritating than discouraging to player running around solo. It would make a nice atmospheric touch, just, not as a tool for enforcing behavior. Players hate that.

The pipebomb...bomb, eh. The tripwire just makes it another sonic trip alarm. Repetitive feature alert!
That's not mentioning that, for a guy who's entire theme is running around blind and gutting stuff like a fish, laying out bombs seems a little complicated for him. Too slow-paced for his fast-paced action.

He seems to be smart enough to know how to make the bombs in the first place :O

I'm giving the bomb idea a damn big thumbs up. Sounds like a very cunning thing to do, but i can see a few problems with it straight away:
a) How would the hidden manage to make a trip wire, that spreads from one end of the map to the other ( if placed in an open space )
If there was a way to tell the distance between the wall/object he was planting it on to the opposite object/wall, then limiting that could work.

b) Like some maps with the sonic trip alarms, the bombs could trigger from nothing (i.e. if it shines through a fence or off the edge of a map sometimes). If this happened to the hidden then, he would be pretty much donald-ducked.
This could be fixed by relating it to the first problem or having a default set time so the hidden can get away before the 'trap' becomes effective.

Possible disadvantages of this however, are that you could get any smart hidden to put 2 and 2 together and plant 2 or more nades close to each other and wipe out a fair few players without even being there.
There could be a damage reduction, but that seems unrealistic.
And that maybe players with bad video settings may not be able to detect the trip wires at all.

To develop it, I would have to say some kind of sensor radius (e.g. someone walks close to a planted nade and it goes off) or perhaps a timed grenade ( like that's ever going to happen).

And to the breathig idea, i am not quite sure.

Euphoria
30th May 2007, 08:53
i'm no the breathing idea, first off.

I like the nade planting idea, could make ambushing iris even more fun (eg- 'herding' them into a trap.) But apart from on HEX maps, I don't see them being that effective, at most only damaging one or two iris, so I don't think thy will be used that much in normal.

Doomsiren
30th May 2007, 09:25
with spidersense i mean sensing an incoming attack. heartbouncing when iris comes near or hearing bullets coming at you from a distance

Euphoria
30th May 2007, 11:27
with spidersense i mean sensing an incoming attack. heartbouncing when iris comes near or hearing bullets coming at you from a distance

And in a real time multiplayer game, how is the computer supposed to 'know' exactly what every player is going to do next before they even do it?!??!?! :p

Going into specifics, the iris thing could be done I suppose, but saying the bullets hit you instantly the best you're gonna get is what your've got now, eg- the sound of the gun firing.

Subface Normal
30th May 2007, 20:31
I think the only motivating alteranative to the "Fear breating" would be something like the effect of drunk goggles... Maybe a players hands are "shaking" somewhat and it causes the screen to jerk/shake mildly. (Or maybe even causes accuracy to decrease?) Anyway. This would probably be more annoying as well... can anyone say console command?

hdn_IRIS_shit_themselves 1/0?

Mr. Bottomhat
30th May 2007, 23:36
I want to be able to solo hidden. Fear is a condition many players already suffer from if you mess with them enough.

Night Raider
31st May 2007, 01:21
Thanks for the comments.

I believe the fear breathing should be implemented for numerous reasons. Currently, in the game, once you spawn you try to get away from your teammates ASAP. They mean nothing to you, all they do is steal your kills and serve as indicators as to the Hidden's position. ("I hear gunfire, the Hidden is near their position") This does not make sense in a team shooter. You're supposed to be encouraged to work with teammates. The fear breathing sound is exactly that incentive, and it will really make you think something along the lines of "should I run after the Hidden and risk getting the fear sound, or should I stay with my teammates and potentionaly miss the kill?" Sure, for those who prefer lonewolfing it to get an easy kill, this might sound like it's detracting from the gameplay. However, this actually adds to it, by making you rely on your teammates and making your teammates rely on you.

Ging
31st May 2007, 01:37
I'd be happy to consider some form of penalty for being away from your team mates (within some form of restriction) - be it decreased accuracy, heavy breathing noises that stopped you hearing 617 approaching or whatever. But it needs some serious balancing thought put into it, otherwise we're punishing people that think their team are following but in reality are on their tod (I've experienced that a number of times).

(i'll hasten to point out that I'm slightly inebriated right now, and perhaps that my comments should be taken with that in view).

Isolation
31st May 2007, 02:05
Heavy breathing coupled with a slightly shaky gun (not too much, just enough to make it feel like your character's heart is beating hard, adrenaline pumping) sound good to me... should probably be tied to health on top of it (more damage, more panic). But, you'd need something to balance that out... fight or flight style speed boost?

Euphoria
1st June 2007, 15:06
fight or flight style speed boost?

Well its not going to be a fight boost, being more scared or tense isn't going to make your weapon fire any faster or harder, but maybe something like a speed boost or increased sensitivity (maybe that last ones a bad idea) based on the number of people left or how far away you are from someone?

Niar
6th June 2007, 16:16
I wouldn't make that sortof thing trigger *just* when you are alone.
If you are near death, i guess you could add some heavy breathing, but something to give to them as a slight advantage too. (Incresed movement speed or better perception to the hidden (slightly) or something like that)

ProgrammedToConsume
7th June 2007, 00:09
Pipebomb: THat sounds good, a good hidden would find a way to block all good camping spots with them.

Breathing: Love it. It goes with the game description because fear is the hidden's best weapon.

The heavy breathing should happen to campers too. By that I mean that since they're cowering in a corner, even though they may not have been hit, they should be breathing heavily nd worried and maybe have their hands shake or have progressive psychotic episodes.



(I'm slightly inebriated right now, and perhaps that my comments should be taken with that in view).

It's my job to be mentally absent, want it? At least I don't need alchohol to be gone.

Demented
7th June 2007, 00:59
I wonder...

How possible is it to...

Gradually introduce a visual shake?

Tweak that visual shakee?

Gradually change FOV?

Overlay a shader texture over a limited portion of the screen? (Okay, maybe this one's evil.)

Shake/move the weapon viewmodel sans animation?