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View Full Version : Fun for me vs. Fun for them?



Alt
27th April 2007, 19:53
Arrrr damn-it, I think I need to address the issue. I have a problem (that I'm sure other Hiddens out there share as well) with managing fun.

OK, let me explain my very simple style of play… rape. Full blown, unconditional rape… Slash, slash, slash, slash, slash… dead, all IRIS dead in however many minutes. Now, I've been getting a lot of oppressive feedback on this. People say I should phys, but I can't be bothered, others say to slash all down to 26hp, then phys... I CAN'T BE BOTHERED! So the result of this is server population decimation. I don't know what to do.

Does phys get more fun as you get better at it? Is it wrong to put personal 'fun' gain before everyone else’s? If you got any ideas or share my pain, please speak up, I'd like to find a solution :D

Zabiela
27th April 2007, 20:19
^^ Reason why i'm not playing at all almost right now.

A clear example is just to take a look at the scoreboards from the server browser: theres very often someone with a 30+/-5 score on whilst the remaining players have very weak scores.

This topic is quite unstable though. Many (i think) people will say they have a right to play how ever they want within the rules of the game, and thats entirely true. The key here is wether or not the good player has enough self awareness to realise how he plays with the others (or for enough negative comments to be made on his behalf), and then it becomes the players decision how to direct his playing style. The manifestations of this are in the way other players see you, as the negative aspects of the playstyle only affect them. The wonders of internet anonimity make it easy to ignore the others and just play all out like an ass. Then, thankfully, we have the good type of people, most of which are on this very forum, who've come to the realisation that thats not what the game is about; its not about your score or killing the iris every round and being as effecient as possible, the game is about being scary, being random and unexpected, making every round as unique in events as possible (and luckily phys works wonderfully for this).
I think the best in people comes out when they start to make friends within the community, and the average non-raping player is very good at this. When you're playing with friends, then that degree of "were just playing for fun" is much greater than with people you dont know at all.

edit: I realise I didnt address methods to changing your playstyle very much at all. I think the most important part is to not be afraid of dying. When you're not constantly trying to avoid dying, I mean to a limited extent (you gotta play the game at least), thats when you start experimenting and trying new stuff, especially with phys. Phys is really hard at first and you end up killing yourself without killing alot, but yeah, once you get somewhat good its like a whole new game almost. But you still keep it within the boundaries of normal play... ive started hearing things of phys whoring, like gibbing everyone, i've never seen it done and it probably takes a lot of skill, but I think within the average person's skill set thats beside the point.

Daedalus
27th April 2007, 20:43
ive started hearing things of phys whoring, like gibbing everyone, i've never seen it done and it probably takes a lot of skill, but I think within the average person's skill set thats beside the point.

Ah, it can happen once in a blue moon.

I usually play the first few rounds the way I usually do, throwing phys around when it's safe, then I gradually make it easier and easier on them. What does peeve me off is when someone gloats after a shotgun kill from a corner while I was trying to hit the guy a barrel.

Just remember that you are remembered for what you do for other people. You can become famous or infamous, depending on your style of play.

Or just screw it and have fun, it's a goddamn game after all. :rolleyes:

Sil
27th April 2007, 21:28
It's a game. It's not a competition. I can see the fun in a serious game -- but there's no fun in a serious game against players who are ten times your superiors. It just ends up feeling like you're playing "Guess what I'm thinking of right now." for money -- against the "dealer".

Egh.

Paegus
27th April 2007, 21:57
phys gibbing is one thing but 100 hp damage isn't that hard.

Zabiela
27th April 2007, 22:09
phys gibbing is one thing but 100 hp damage isn't that hard.

Yeah soz. I meant 1 hit pwning everyone.

butterқnife
27th April 2007, 22:34
I have encountered this before when playing with a server full of fresh meat. If you kill the IRIS quickly (rinse and repeat) it's very possible to be annihilating people and not even realize the extent of your damage until you press TAB, or everyone leaves.

I play for fun - in the sense that I don't care so much about my score as I do about scaring the crap out of the IRIS and making all the noobs with shotguns shoot each other. I'm just now becoming proficient enough with phys to cause some real chaos and get a few 1 hit kills, while giving the IRIS a fighting chance. Zab had a good point that when playing with friends you do care less about winning in a sense. I suppose you've just got to find a good balance in there, and just try and realize when you're playing like an asshole (not anyone specifically, just in general). Players that use cheap tactics and destroy everyone are more likely to cause everyone to leave than the player that makes the IRIS crap their pants while he destroys everyone.

.02

starstriker1
27th April 2007, 23:54
Okay, I could understand it when it was whining about the pigstick, but saying that good hiddens need to be making phys kills is crazy. It's like saying that good counterstrike players should forget about their guns and rush the opposing team with a knife. The phys manipulation abilities of the hidden are limited in use and purpose. They are for distracting, disorienting, and embarrassing the IRIS, not as a stand alone weapon.

That said, simply going in and beating the snot out of the IRIS isn't too rewarding for anyone. Its less that you should handicap yourself and more that you should be engaging in the necessary theatrics. Scare 'em a bit. Take the time to do stuff that just makes them flip out (ie, drop a body on them when they aren't expecting it).

Thats what this mod is great for!

Alt
28th April 2007, 07:37
Yeah, I'm adopting a new style of play a bit now. Rather than being the confrontational, rush, slash, die, ass-wipe I once was, I'm now taking my time. I'm making it harder for them to tell where I am, where I'm going, and, where I've been. I don't know if this is more fun for them, but rounds last longer, its definitely more scary for them, and, I'm not too fussed about how fun it is :D

I also believe in what starstriker says when he points out that phys cannot be played as a primary weapon. That would be sensationally hard.

Mayhem
28th April 2007, 07:55
I rather slash few times and start throwing boxes all over the room :) The sound of a braking box, love.

Physsing is actually very easy when you have the general idea of it. High sens and a good prediction of the position of the IRIS. Its all in the wrist.
or
You can do it the easy way and just pounce above them and throw a barrel down, going for the gib. :P Don't take me as a physwhore, just tryed few times to get as many gibs in a round as possible. Three is my record so far :) (out of five IRIS).

Daedalus
28th April 2007, 08:37
You can do it the easy way and just pounce above them and throw a barrel down, going for the gib. :P Don't take me as a physwhore, just tryed few times to get as many gibs in a round as possible. Three is my record so far :) (out of five IRIS).

Not as easy as it sounds, you know. :p

Prometheus
28th April 2007, 08:42
I rather slash few times and start throwing boxes all over the room :) The sound of a braking box, love.

Physsing is actually very easy when you have the general idea of it. High sens and a good prediction of the position of the IRIS. Its all in the wrist.
or
You can do it the easy way and just pounce above them and throw a barrel down, going for the gib. :P Don't take me as a physwhore, just tryed few times to get as many gibs in a round as possible. Three is my record so far :) (out of five IRIS).

Wanst that with me (Prometheus) yesterday?? Along with SKiikii and Xiberia?

Mayhem
28th April 2007, 08:42
Not as easy as it sounds, you know.

Don't be such a pessimist :D High sens is everything(and the wrist).


Wanst that with me (Prometheus) yesterday??

Yeah. I remember you :) Was fun messing around the room with boxes and all.

-SM-SUCKER
28th April 2007, 12:57
Zab said it already: If you die you don't lose. If you can think of it this way you can play to reach so many other goals. Such like trying to lure them all into one room, like the vent control in stalkyard. Or let them all waste their ammo without killing anyone. Let them hunt you or hunt them. Both ways can be very exciting for IRIS and Hidden.
I for myself like it when I have 5-8 guns shooting at me without hitting me. I try to keep it this way for 10 seconds or more. Then I give them some "rest". Keep them waiting a bit. I use this time time to search other single IRIS to lure them to the others.
Exceptions are those players who kill me or others with cheap tactics or are beeing an ass otherwise. Those tend to die fast if I'm in the wrong mood.

starstriker1
28th April 2007, 18:24
I try not to go for the one hit kill exploit, personally.

Daedalus
28th April 2007, 21:15
I try not to go for the one hit kill exploit, personally.

Now this is an exploit? Srsly, at least with phys you can see it coming...Done properly a slash flyby X 3 cannot be countered.

Luring whole teams into small rooms is fun. Take the sewers spawn room. It's got a nice amount of physics objects in it, but sort of lacks cover and you can get caught on the little protrusions in the room. Another disadvantage is that if you land a good hit, the bodies disappear into the walls. One less corpse to scare the other IRIS with. :rolleyes:

Zabiela
29th April 2007, 02:03
Another disadvantage is that if you land a good hit, the bodies disappear into the walls. One less corpse to scare the other IRIS with. :rolleyes:

Ey does this still happen in b5? Its quite frustrating when you were looking forward to eating those international snacks.... choi goes good with some white rice.

starstriker1
29th April 2007, 02:46
Now this is an exploit? Srsly, at least with phys you can see it coming...Done properly a slash flyby X 3 cannot be countered.


Yes, actually, though it's not an obscene offender. It is an exploit of the way things are being handled with the object grab, taking advantage of holes in the physics engine to do stuff that wasn't intended and really doesn't make a lot of sense, suspension of disbelief wise

And don't get me started on the triple slash flyby. Ignoring the huge skill and luck requirement to make it work (as that's also a factor in the one hit phys kills), you have a considerable time before the target goes down, a small margin of error, plenty of strain on your stamina, and you're exposing yourself to weapons fire for far longer than you should. On an effectiveness basis, you get a far better reward for much less risk through hit and run attacks.

Zabiela
29th April 2007, 04:14
you get a far better reward for much less risk through hit and run attacks.

Definition of the flyby? "by" defining the "and run"?

Daedalus
29th April 2007, 08:17
Definition of the flyby? "by" defining the "and run"?

Well, flyby as in you pounce over/to the side of the IRIS, and while flying by him, you slash him.

IMO a 3 slash kill is less risky than a 1 hit physkill. When you try a slash and miss somehow, you just miss and can pounce away pretty safely. When you go for a physkill, everyone can see you, and there's gonna be a lot of bullets flying your way.

Of course you could pounce near an object, then fling it at a nearby IRIS, but they aren't always in the right position for that.

Mayhem
29th April 2007, 10:03
I usually run out of time as Hidden (at S's) just because I like to mess around. Throw barrels near the IRIS or just spook them out. To make them waste ammo and everything.

Gives more joy than killing everyone.

Mr. Bottomhat
29th April 2007, 13:15
If I see someone playing boring and is good enought to win while doing so most of the time I just lose all compassion and tries to make his time hell. I try never whining in the chat since I hate when people are like that to me (two people camping with shottys on top of some boxes, I phys one of them but with 14hp left I slash the other one and recieve a sour comment the next round omg you should have physed me too you little whore, ya says the guy who nades you for camping while standing still 5 seconds in a doorway).

But yeah, goofing around is the way to go with hidden unless you want an empty server or if the IRIS are really good. Those games are my absolute favourites, when you really have to fight for your life every second to win when every IRIS on the server is a dangerous motherfucker.

starstriker1
29th April 2007, 17:48
Definition of the flyby? "by" defining the "and run"?

I am referring to sticking around to make three flyby slashes in a row, versus hitting once and fading before they can react.

Note: I'm not making any argument like "phys kills are imbalanced" or "phys kills are a gameplay issue". I'm arguing that they are an unintended exploit of the system, and too bizarre to really justify. At some point in the future, the capacity to flick objects around at that speed should be taken out or mitigated, simply because it SHOULDN'T be there. Its a lower priority... a polish thing.

Daedalus
29th April 2007, 18:02
At some point in the future, the capacity to flick objects around at that speed should be taken out or mitigated, simply because it SHOULDN'T be there. Its a lower priority... a polish thing.

I dunno dude, if the hidden can make a guy asplode with a knife, I don't see why he can't do it by throwing a barrel hard enough. The hidden has enhanced strength after all.

starstriker1
29th April 2007, 19:15
There should be a hard cap on the speed that he can throw them. I'm not against the use of flicking the mouse to throw objects around, but there has to be a limit somewhere. It is certainly an unintended effect, considering that the throw strength is otherwise quite low, and the maximum speed attained by flicking the objects around is obscene.

And ripping someone apart with a small, bladed object is a fair bit different from whacking them upside the head with an empty barrel and having them explode.

Felf
30th April 2007, 21:05
I'd say that being "bumped upside the head" (that always reminds me of that song... I say a hip, hop hipidy hee I don't know the lyrics so I *won't* try to sing them... - that was all to the correct tune; it worked in my head) was gonna be *more* likely to instasplode you than having a knife-shaped hole through your nether regions.

starstriker1
30th April 2007, 22:55
The gibs are really over exaggerated anyways, so lets IGNORE that component of them as stylization.

Red
1st May 2007, 06:14
Playing Hidden is like sex... if it's good for them, it's good for you.

Giggidy giggdy!

Daedalus
1st May 2007, 08:09
Playing Hidden is like sex... if it's good for them, it's good for you.

Giggidy giggdy!

Does that mean triplenading is like premature ejaculation?

starstriker1
1st May 2007, 16:38
What is WITH you guys and extending analogies well past their best before date!?!

Mr. Bottomhat
1st May 2007, 20:23
Does that mean triplenading is like premature ejaculation?
No, it's like jerking off and jizzing all over her face. And by her I mean some random girl in the street you just gave a shot of ketamine.

<Beatlemania>
2nd May 2007, 04:25
theres no other game that allows you so much freedom in how you play. I myself havent had much experience 'playing with my prey' in an fps. That's why i like it a lot. I really don't have much to say on this topic other than that, because im not that decided for myself. If you're a good player, you're a good player, i guess :confused:

edit: i really should have looked at the couple of posts before me first :eek: