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Subface Normal
27th April 2007, 03:04
Well, I was thinking recently that when looking through your eyes while under water, your vision is drastically blurred. I figured that this is an effect greatly underplayed and underused in the world of gaming and I figured that since the hidden is so easily seen under water in most cases, that it might be nice to add the effect of a strong blur while under water. In the opposite respect, I figured that maybe the hidden could have his own effect with shaders and color correction while under water (since he technically doesnt "see" while under water, he uses some of his other "senses") I figured a very strong blue shader much like the one he has already would be a cool effect, just a much stronger version. Maybe adding a type of fog effect while under water would help the visual effect as well. For the most part, this is just a cosmetic thing, and It may not be seen very often with the current maps and planned levels for the B5 release because of the lack of water use, but it'd be freakin awesome!

Even if this is a shunned Idea because of the lack of viewable areas in maps where you'll actually be under water, it might be nice to add in simply because of the expandability of the mod. I know that I already have a map in mind that will play off of the use of water heavily, and it might be nice to not have the "Perfect visibility" under water, especially when it shows where the hidden is at. Please leave any thoughts/comments/suggestions on the subject.

starstriker1
27th April 2007, 03:54
How is the hidden more visible under water? I've never understood that.

So kind of blur or refraction would be nice, but the best way to do it is simple underwater fog... but thats a definite no-no, as the refraction doesn't work with fog and rain effects.

Subface Normal
27th April 2007, 04:17
The hidden is more visible because underwater effects use a type of fog effect to make it seem like there's volume to the water. With fog, there are layers applied after a scene is rendered (but after shaders) and the shader effect of the hidden actually says "hey! Dont use your fog on my pixels!" so you can see right through the fog to whatever was behind him. Basically you get an outline of the hidden in the water, and he's clearly visible...


***NOTE***
The fog effect was intended towards viewing from THE HIDDEN only. Since his vision would be viewed much differently than as IRIS, I figured it should be applied to make it seem like he can only "feel" the water, Much like sharks and fish do. The blur effect would limit how far he can see though (disturbance in the water). The blue shader should be MUCH stronger though, that way it seems like his vision is blurred, but at the same time it's clear... Just a little different feel i guess...

Ging
27th April 2007, 12:09
I'm not convinced that anything we could do would overcome the fact that he's completely visible when underwater. If we were to distort / blur the view sufficiently, it would make navigation / anything else nearly impossible.

We decided a long time ago that water just wasn't an environment you'd find in any official maps at any depth beyond about the thighs (highrise fountain). If, one day, we can find a way around the rendering conflicts, than that might change, but it's unlikely.

Paegus
27th April 2007, 12:27
though if anything the hidden should be able to sense much better under water as sound travels much faster there.

Subface Normal
27th April 2007, 16:49
yeah... I figured that... but if you know about water you also know that confined spaces cause a "reverb" effect in the surrounding area, causing a lot of "noise" in any sensory equipment. Since the hidden will most likely be in confined spaces, it might be a better effect to recreate this "noise" in the form of an underwater fog (only a light one) along with a very strong shader...

Dark Soul
27th April 2007, 18:55
Speaking of water effects,I think it would be cool to have water drip down the HUD when you get out of water.You could also reuse the effect when the hidden Pigsticks someone and blood drips down the hiddens HUD,Gears of War had this when you chainsawed someone.

Edit*
http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/1825/bloodny8.jpg
Mmm,Blood.

Subface Normal
27th April 2007, 19:32
I dont think a dripping water effect would be good. It's not third person so it doesnt feel like it's organic. Since with the blur effect we're going for a natural feel (not like it's a camera, it's actually your eyes) So it might be better to have a version of the hidden's shader that fades away as you are removing yourself from the water. This is a MUCH more accurate feel to the natural blurs.

Dark Soul
27th April 2007, 20:19
Well i still think it would look really cool to have blood go all over your screen when you pigstick some one.Just like the GOW Chainsaw,it would be more satisfying.I think the mod needs a bit more gore,and this would be an easy fix for it.

Edit*
http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/5020/hdnstalkyard0002copygx3.th.jpg (http://img364.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hdnstalkyard0002copygx3.jpg)
Not really good at making blood,but you get the idea.

Subface Normal
27th April 2007, 22:00
now THAT looks really cool for the pigstick effect... Maybe that can work... The water thing, would be extremely different though. For that, it's a great concept though, I'd like to see ging "No" this idea... (bring it... I'll spam you so hard you wont know what hit ya if you say no to this! :p)

Ging
27th April 2007, 22:05
(bring it... I'll spam you so hard you wont know what hit ya if you say no to this! :p)

You would magically find yourself on the global ignore list...

Subface Normal
28th April 2007, 08:58
I withdraw my statement...

<Beatlemania>
28th April 2007, 18:22
Hehe. Well i like the blood effect, as long as it would be there for too long.

Paegus
28th April 2007, 18:24
it's a nice effect and all that but the hidden doesn't actually have eyes so he can't really see the blood. and even if he did or could, the lack of light falling on it (or through it) would mean he couldn't see it anyway.

the iris on the other hand...

pazik
28th April 2007, 19:48
Well i still think it would look really cool to have blood go all over your screen when you pigstick some one.Just like the GOW Chainsaw,it would be more satisfying.I think the mod needs a bit more gore,and this would be an easy fix for it.

Edit*
http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/5020/hdnstalkyard0002copygx3.th.jpg (http://img364.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hdnstalkyard0002copygx3.jpg)
Not really good at making blood,but you get the idea.

One of you wants blood, one wants realism.

here is a simple solution for both of you:

the blood effect does appear when you do heavy damage.

instead of dripping *down* your hud, it mixes with your eye juices and travels in *all directions*, fading slightly until you cant see it.

looks cool and realistic. what do you think?

Demented
28th April 2007, 21:40
Well, considering the blood would be gotten on his bandages, not his eyes....

Then again, maybe he has to willfully ignore something in order to "see" past it.

Dark Soul
28th April 2007, 21:58
What if the hidden can feel the blood on this face.

pazik
29th April 2007, 01:21
Well, considering the blood would be gotten on his bandages, not his eyes....

Then again, maybe he has to willfully ignore something in order to "see" past it.

iris - as i said.

hidden- the blood spokes into his blind fold.