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sharpshark28
20th March 2007, 17:33
My first hidden map has been in the works since Friday, however, I've been sick with the Flu so I didn't reach the point of releasing good WIP pictures to the public until now. It's a bit empty at the moment but I'll be working on adding details, props, and other things such as maybe a vent or two.

http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/7089/hl22007032012135609qp5.th.jpg (http://img480.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hl22007032012135609qp5.jpg)
http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/1348/hl22007032013154539ay7.th.jpg (http://img480.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hl22007032013154539ay7.jpg)
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/8326/hl22007032013160465eg2.th.jpg (http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hl22007032013160465eg2.jpg)
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/2024/hl22007032013162696ox4.th.jpg (http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hl22007032013162696ox4.jpg)
http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/1079/hl22007032013170598vx0.th.jpg (http://img129.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hl22007032013170598vx0.jpg)
http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/4208/hl22007032013180106sq4.th.jpg (http://img129.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hl22007032013180106sq4.jpg)
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/554/hl22007032013181009wb8.th.jpg (http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hl22007032013181009wb8.jpg)
http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/5385/hl22007032013191381yc1.th.jpg (http://img480.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hl22007032013191381yc1.jpg)
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4571/hl22007032013193901yt7.th.jpg (http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hl22007032013193901yt7.jpg)

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/8824/hl22007032013183646rb7.th.jpg (http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hl22007032013183646rb7.jpg)
Question...how come the outside decals and some plants show up super bright? There were no leaks on compile. Any ideas?


Problems:
The one I mentioned above.
Some places are to dark for the IRIS.
The room where I have a picture of an IRIS member may be recreated.
Add more stuff to make it more appealing.

Phaedrus
20th March 2007, 17:44
It looks good, but maybe too big.

Paegus
20th March 2007, 17:58
the flow from one room texture type to the other looks a little too abrupt.
some of the vent pathways seem too contrived.

sharpshark28
20th March 2007, 19:12
Thanks for the comments, I'll take them into consideration. Mainly the pathways, yeah they do look to abrupt. Thanks.

Zabiela
20th March 2007, 19:19
Question...how come the outside decals and some plants show up super bright? There were no leaks on compile. Any ideas?

Problems:
The one I mentioned above.
Some places are to dark for the IRIS.
The room where I have a picture of an IRIS member may be recreated.
Add more stuff to make it more appealing.

I dont know about the decals, but if lighting on props like plants is wrong, place an "info_lighting" next to the plant, name it, position it where the lighting would be correct, then select the plant and make it use the info_lighting as its light source. This comes in handy when you have a prop, whose center is outside of the map; in game it will show up super dark, unless you put an info lighting, next to it, in the map.

The map has potential. Focus on softening up your geometry, looks sorta blocky, make some nice 45 deg angles, or beveled curves and corners. I like how the garden looks. Also, work on gameplay flow, you dont want crowding in small areas, big empty places (not much in this case) or iris-exploitable camping zones.

sharpshark28
21st March 2007, 03:36
A few updated screenies.
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/6053/hl22007032023215806cf3.th.jpg (http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hl22007032023215806cf3.jpg)
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/8812/hl22007032023220995sc7.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hl22007032023220995sc7.jpg)
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/5540/hl22007032023231515rd5.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hl22007032023231515rd5.jpg)
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/3922/hl22007032023232628eo4.th.jpg (http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hl22007032023232628eo4.jpg)
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/8635/hl22007032023243570ka1.th.jpg (http://img262.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hl22007032023243570ka1.jpg)
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/5008/hl22007032023272256fp3.th.jpg (http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hl22007032023272256fp3.jpg)
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/8249/hl22007032023273970uk4.th.jpg (http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hl22007032023273970uk4.jpg)

From to dark, to to bright. Of course... Well now I know about the right lighting ammounts. I rounded things out a lot, added doorways and stopped the abrupt room change. Still have the model lighting problem...may have been my fault, I'm going to move the info_lights higher and make sure I pointed to them correctly. But I did solve my decal light problem, they were meant to be overlays. (I only tested this on one decal) So that's taken care of. So progress is good, expect the map either at the end of the week, or hopefully early of next week. I'll probably be gone during the weekends.

scratch
21st March 2007, 08:48
Obviously you know how to map, but i'm concerned about the way you are combining textures and props. As Paegus already mentioned the flow from one room to the next is too abrupt. Even when you've "fixed" this with doorways, you are still using alot of different texture sets resulting in a very odd look.

Take a look at the last two pictures you posted:

The one with the bright area contains three completely different texture sets. It reminds me of a furniture store where you go "from one set to the next", for a map it just doesn't look believable. The tiles textures doesn't fit in there too, same for the vent.

The last pic: The doorway texture, the carpet, the pictures and the lamps don't fit into the office style.

Paegus
21st March 2007, 10:30
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/6053/hl22007032023215806cf3.th.jpg (http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hl22007032023215806cf3.jpg)
-i quite like the feel of this room but the decal on the wall behind the IR advert makes no sense.
-also if you could match the skylight to the ceiling texture it would look far more practical.
-the table seems a bit too high and big. and the legs... well... anyway what's with the rug under it?
-the painting on the wall in the far hallway seems entirely out of place against polished marble. keep ornate things like that in the wooden 'posh' section.
-the skylight brush work looks a bit course and blocky. if you can access the roof through it then don't make it all that easy. given the relatively smooth texturing in that room it's a hidden's joyride.


http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/8812/hl22007032023220995sc7.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hl22007032023220995sc7.jpg)
-this hallway is completely out of place. granted i can't see behind you but it makes it look like the whole place is made of wood with fake marble tiles stuck on the front. not exactly something i'd associate with modern architecture for firms like I.R. who at one point at least obviously had more money than they knew what to do with.
-by default those wheely rack things are very heavy so it's basically an obstruction. and while it's true that any IRIS found in this hallway deserve whatever fate befalls them it's just in the way. prehaps put it on its side so players can jump over the handle bits. or motion disable it so they can jump on it without getting jerky-stuck.


http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/5540/hl22007032023231515rd5.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hl22007032023231515rd5.jpg)
-really bland. play through executive a bit to get a feel for the architecture... primarily the ceiling.
-and that there light in the foreground... clip-o-matic


http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/3922/hl22007032023232628eo4.th.jpg (http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hl22007032023232628eo4.jpg)
-the stair railings... they're HUEG! yet the stair area is minuscule. try to keep the stairs at least 2 player widths wide so there's as little "get the f*** out of my way you bitch" as possible.
-way too many light props
-the executive railings are out of place
-again with the wooden building construction. if anything it would be wood ON concrete. like a penthouse suite or something. but doing that in a storage room?


http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/8635/hl22007032023243570ka1.th.jpg (http://img262.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hl22007032023243570ka1.jpg)
-not sure why the iris need roof access. it already gives the hidden carte blanche as it is.
-the ladder on the wheely bin... unless that wheely bin is motion disabled or the whole thing is rigged to be 'destroyable' so the ladder will fall down... too contrived and convenient.


http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/5008/hl22007032023272256fp3.th.jpg (http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hl22007032023272256fp3.jpg)
-i'm not completely against the wood/posh section mind you. it could be the bit where the execs go to relax or what ever people with that much money tend to do but the way it interfaces is just meh.
-and that vent... umm no. at least not with ceiling that low.
-on that note though you could probably do well to raise the roof a bit everywhere. or have staggered bits that are raised or not to give the previous roof shot some more colour. then make roof access a hidden only with a 2-pounce minimum to access it. meaning he has to cling somewhere, re-orient and pounce again at as awkward an angle as possible. this posh section would do well to be raised up sitting on top of everything else with a nice view of outside.


http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/8249/hl22007032023273970uk4.th.jpg (http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hl22007032023273970uk4.jpg)
-again with the manor/decay pictures on marble walls.
-that door panel should be 2 separate doors.
-those step railing on the far left are too big vs the side of the steps again.
-make sure the door lip going outside has a step down. it would suck to ruin the carpet if it rained a bit too heavily.

sharpshark28
21st March 2007, 17:43
Wow...harse. But some ideas were layed out. Thanks in a sense but I don't think it's that horrible. :mad:

Yes as I mentioned the bright room that was mentioned twice in the last (or maybe it was second to last) screenshot is being remade. It's actually empty in that screenie and is simply existing until I find something interesting to put in there and it'll be redesigned as intended.

I guess since it was worth all that effort in pointing out so many flaws I'll work on some things... :(

Edit: Oh yeah lol and by the way, those "stairs" aren't stairs. You just can't tell what it is by the angle in the screenshot. :P

Daedalus
21st March 2007, 18:24
Wow...harse. But some ideas were layed out. Thanks in a sense but I don't think it's that horrible. :mad:

That's called constructive criticism. And Paeg really knows his stuff when it comes to that. :p

Think of it this way, if nobody points out the flaws then you won't be able to find all of them...

Paegus
21st March 2007, 19:25
meh... it's cool. even Boxy hates me.

as for the perceived tone, i don't go into it intending them to be either particularly harsh or complimentary. it's generally easier to pick out flaws though so i'm afraid that's mostly what catches my physical and mental eye.

scratch
21st March 2007, 20:17
Yeah, don't be pissed off by the comments, noone said "omg noob learn to map lol!!11!". So just keep working on it and follow some or the other advice given here.

;)

sharpshark28
22nd March 2007, 01:38
Guess I'd better get used to the way this community works then. Yeah I was in a mood when I wrote that post, but I guess I'm also used to at least getting a few fully positive replies at facepunch. Most likely the reason I didn't recieve those is because this community is fewer in number and only the more experienced remain here while the newbies ask their questions and leave.

Well like I said I'll work on a few things that you guys suggested but I'll have to decide for myself which ones to keep the way they are. Well still expected release date will be beginning of next week. I'll keep you posted. :)

scratch
22nd March 2007, 06:35
Sure thing. I wonder what the facepunch forums look like, but we aren't elitist in any way here (are we?), maybe a bit spoiled by Boxy's mapping art xD. But the thing is that Hidden maps need a special atmosphere in order to be enjoyable, so i think at least the Hiddenites are very sensitive to what they get to see in a map ;).

Demented
22nd March 2007, 06:59
Actually, we're spoiled more by the official maps for Hidden, which are just so good that they put every custom map so far to shame. Underground matched the flow, Resident has matched the graphics, but I can't recall a map that's done both.

But don't let that deter you, or anything... :tongueincheek:

Plenty of them are still fun to play.

Boxy
22nd March 2007, 09:35
Wow...harse. But some ideas were layed out. Thanks in a sense but I don't think it's that horrible. :mad:

It is sometimes harsh when you slave over something for a long time and testers only return more bugs/errors or glitches and you don't even get a location 'x' looks nice or trap 'y' works really well, but it all helps in the end.


meh... it's cool. even Boxy hates me.

as for the perceived tone, i don't go into it intending them to be either particularly harsh or complimentary. it's generally easier to pick out flaws though so i'm afraid that's mostly what catches my physical and mental eye.

NEVER stop what you do, your the most damn useful, nitpicking bastard on the forums...

Gusdor
22nd March 2007, 11:17
NEVER stop what you do, your the most damn useful, nitpicking bastard on the forums...
QTF

When I submit an animation, there is nothing worse for me to hear 'that'll do' from Ging. Boxy is fairly enthusiastic when he likes (which is create from a creative perspective) in contrasts to Ging's deadpan charm :P Its important to say to yourself and testers that 'that'll do' is rubbish! Is it _exactly_ what is needed? Does it tick every box? Are their any eyecatching blemishes? Is the style wrong?

My crits on the map? I liked how much there is in it. However, the size of the rooms seems fairly limiting for 617. The lighting could use a wee bit more contrast too!

Boxy
22nd March 2007, 12:02
When I submit an animation, there is nothing worse for me to hear 'that'll do' from Ging. Boxy is fairly enthusiastic when he likes (which is create from a creative perspective) in contrasts to Ging's deadpan charm :P Its important to say to yourself and testers that 'that'll do' is rubbish! Is it _exactly_ what is needed? Does it tick every box? Are their any eyecatching blemishes? Is the style wrong?

Nail. Head. Bang. If you ever find yourself saying 'it will do' it ain't good enough, end of. Go back and change something or at worst, throw it out and start again. Hurts but its for the best.