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Pan the Goat God
27th February 2007, 02:53
Alright, so..bare with me on this one, it was a lot simpler sounding in my head while I was brushing my teeth.

I was trying to think about what flaws could be fixed with the game, and one thing that keeps coming up is how Vets can spot a hidden from a mile away. We all can. When a vet plays as IRIS, its not staring at walls looking for a blur, its more..intuitive, a "hidden sense" if you will. We've all seen the Hidden shader so much that we can just feel where he's at, unless of course its another vet.

Most Vets have killed a hidden standing still, crouched in a dark corner, or even in the apex of his pounce. Really, the only difference between a vet and someone with BHS is skill.

So, I was wondering if there was any way the hidden could have random variations of his shader? Not saying "zomgz make him less visible with anal nukes", but..I dunno, make the shader behave different, move different..be different somehow. Like every round it'd be a different variation, so we wouldn't be sure what to look for. I'm not sure what can be done with the shader (if anything), but this is just a basic idea for now.

Too much? Not enough?

Demented
27th February 2007, 03:24
Force dx8 mode. =P

Probably "not enough". You can vary the normalmaps so he refracts it differently, I'm sure.

However, it's probably more likely that vets recognize the maps and the locations, and how everything should look when the Hidden isn't there. That it looks different ticks you off to his location. The Hidden's refraction is basically dependant on his surrounding, and it's not going to mean much if his refraction is an amorphous blob or rows of alternating strips, so long as it alters the appearance of the background.

starstriker1
27th February 2007, 03:38
Any variation other than simply changing the refraction values will make it incredibly easy to spot him. Also, a huge part of a vet's hidden tracking arsenal is the stuff other than eyesight. Specifically, knowing the game mechanics, the maps, and the capabilities of the hidden. I can make educated guesses as to where the hidden is going and what he's doing with a reasonably high degree of accuracy... especially if I know the player involved.

Zabiela
27th February 2007, 06:29
The way the cloak in dystopia dissapears when you stand still is very smooth. Im sure the team can replicate it, but I think this idea will get shot down before it gets there.

Demented
27th February 2007, 09:18
Any variation other than simply changing the refraction values will make it incredibly easy to spot him.

*poke poke*

Say what?

Paegus
27th February 2007, 10:39
this might make it harder for vets to find him but think of how hard it would make it for non vets... they have a hard enough time as it is without trying to learn new subconscious visual cues.

but if you relegated it to a handi-cap style check box like the hidden vision overlay then most player will remove it unless there was some benefit. but if there was some benefit then why bother with it as things will invariably balance out anyway and you're back to square 1.

this is why i like random server tbh. no pingpong.

Daedalus
27th February 2007, 14:02
If the devs could modify the hidden's shader on-the-fly (*coughDystopiacough*) then we could have some sorta system that makes the hidden less visible depending on how well you're doing.

Say you just wiped out the IRIS 3 rounds in a row? The hidden's shader gets less visible.

Of course this would be hard to balance out. And this idea will be no'd most likely as most ideas do. :D

Paegus
27th February 2007, 15:01
if by LESS visible with each round you in fact mean MORE visible...

which i completely support btw. it wouldn't effect hdn_hiddenrounds 1 or hdn_selectmethod 2 servers for obvious reasons but i gather the stickies have pre-emptively noed thing.

Daedalus
27th February 2007, 15:22
if by LESS visible with each round you in fact mean MORE visible...

which i completely support btw. it wouldn't effect hdn_hiddenrounds 1 or hdn_selectmethod 2 servers for obvious reasons but i gather the stickies have pre-emptively noed thing.

The "less visible hidden" would only affect the client that did a 3 round rampage. That's what I meant. :p

Paegus
27th February 2007, 15:31
oh you mean from the that player-as-IRIS's perspective...

that could work for a while but it'll end up just make that player get even better at acquiring the hidden so in the long run makes little difference and in the short run it'll be nigh impossible to get by him until he's owned the IRIS for a round or 3 and his hidden has become less visible.

making a player-as-hidden be more visible based on their score ratio and/or consecutive rounds played as hidden etc would probably last a bit longer but then players would become that much better in the earlier rounds when they're more invisible.

random selection > all that though.

Masterpod
27th February 2007, 15:34
I was trying to think about what flaws could be fixed with the game, and one thing that keeps coming up is how Vets can spot a hidden from a mile away. We all can. When a vet plays as IRIS, its not staring at walls looking for a blur, its more..intuitive, a "hidden sense" if you will. We've all seen the Hidden shader so much that we can just feel where he's at, unless of course its another vet.

The thing is, that's not really a flaw. Of course a vet will be able to spot the hidden much easier because of the vet's experience, giving him/her an advantage over newcomers. But vet's aren't really supposed to be playing newcomers at that level of skill. To show my point, in sports, someone that competes in the world cup will not compete against someone that just started that sport. Why should it be any different in hidden? Especially these days when all the vet's are mostly just doing physkills because it's ''too easy'' or ''boring'' to play for winning (Well I guess that's an entirely different debate though)

Why change it when, as you say, if there's another vet it's not really that easy to know where he is or spot him.

Disagree with me if you will, but I feel there's no reason to make everyone be at a low level of play just because it's not ''fair''.

Daedalus
27th February 2007, 15:34
oh you mean from the that player-as-IRIS's perspective...

that could work for a while but it'll end up just make that player get even better at acquiring the hidden so in the long run makes little difference and in the short run it'll be nigh impossible to get by him until he's owned the IRIS for a round or 3 and his hidden has become less visible.

making a player-as-hidden be more visible based on their score ratio and/or consecutive rounds played as hidden etc would probably last a bit longer but then players would become that much better in the earlier rounds when they're more invisible.

random selection > all that though.

Yeah, but making him more visible goes against the rules stated in The Great Sticky.

And it doesn't matter if the hidden's less visible, people will get better at tracking him anyway.

Ah well, this is going nowhere. :rolleyes:

edit°
27th February 2007, 17:57
Changing the shader so that the hidden the more rounds he goes could be interesting if it ended in the hidden being completely visible but I think it would be fun for a tiny amount of the population. Basically if someone is playing "ZOMGS I OWN YOU" then they will do regardless. Make it harder and they'll just play more so that they can still do it - all you've really done is boned the ones who don't make inhuman efforts to be on hidden 24/7.