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Thief
2nd February 2007, 11:27
Even with very low-ping (20-50ms) servers lag is an issue..

Pigsticker misses/unsyncs, slash unsyncs, lot of phantom shooting.. (lot of unsynced stuff, hit-boxes are elsewhere than we see it.. daah)
Most of the problems are hidden side.

And hdn_origin is very laggy with those "explosion" events..

Is this really hl2 engine/netcode problem (quite crappy netcode) and is there any ways to improve the quality of the game, lag compensation..

Daedalus
2nd February 2007, 12:20
With that ping you should be fine. I usually played before with about 100ms and "phantom shooting" rarely occured. The odd slash did no damage but that was when I was lagging.

Origin has that lag due to something going wrong with the map.

And you think this game is lag sensitive, try playing bf2/2142! As soon as you get a little lag your character starts twitching everywhere... :rolleyes:

Thief
2nd February 2007, 16:30
Usually i play 20-80 pings, no choke, clean connection.. (at least is seems so)

Seems that especially hidden strikes unsyncs.. at least i am experiencing some major sync problems.. Sound and blood effects but no damage..

I hope its not my connection.. Ill have to do some research on this..

Paegus
2nd February 2007, 17:04
it's not your connection.
everyone gets this to varying degrees.
valve's 56k-friendly net-code sucks.

Zabiela
2nd February 2007, 20:47
Also, seems the higher the average player ping in the server, the more lag you get, even if your ping is low. I've experienced that kind of lag with 5 ping.

Tsukasa1105
2nd February 2007, 22:05
I know what your talking about, it especially annoys me in hidden due to the precision needed. That was actually the original reason I put up a dedicated server, so I had a clean <1ms ping.

Thief
2nd February 2007, 22:18
I know what your talking about, it especially annoys me in hidden due to the precision needed. That was actually the original reason I put up a dedicated server, so I had a clean <1ms ping.

Yeah thats exactly what i am talking about..
Very annoying, being hidden is art.. :D especially with slight lag.

Tsukasa1105
2nd February 2007, 22:43
Well hey if your going to quakecon this year you can get a <1ms ping too, i'm running a hidden:source tournament there on the lan.

Scuzzy
3rd February 2007, 21:53
With that low of a ping it shouldn't be an issue.... What are the specs on your machine? (perhaps that is where the problem lies...)

Scuzzy

Zabiela
3rd February 2007, 22:01
I just used a tut to tweak cl_cmdrate and similar ones, I get alot less choke now.

Thief
4th February 2007, 14:36
Yeah i am playing with laptop, Amd Turion 64 ML34 (~1800mhz), 512mb memory, Ati X700 gfx..

Gfx settings are almost lowest possible, shader detail is high because its seems to affect hidden visibility..

Usually choke is 0, fps is about 20-40..

Scuzzy
4th February 2007, 20:56
Yeah i am playing with laptop, Amd Turion 64 ML34 (~1800mhz), 512mb memory, Ati X700 gfx..

Gfx settings are almost lowest possible, shader detail is high because its seems to affect hidden visibility..

Usually choke is 0, fps is about 20-40..

I'd have to say with 512mb of ram and that configuration I can understand (no offense intended) why you're machine is lagging out.

Scuzzy

Danni
11th February 2007, 13:08
Being a netcode vet, Valve's netcode is just fine, the problem is The Hidden's prediction and client code (no attack on the developers intended, I am sure this is on their list). Do you hear 20 footsteps at once and skip when you walk in CS:S, DOD:S etc? Do you fire 200000000 RPM client side and 200 Server side in CS:S and DOD:S? Two and Two equals?

"Desyncs" are caused when the local player prediction and the servers authoritative moves come to a disagreement, you have a prediction error and because the server is authoritative, you warp (slowly thanks to smoothing).

There are a lot of natural elements which cause these, like being close to another player, because the clients state of such objects are not the same as the servers. Desync.

My biggest concern is SDKBase's netcode seams to be missing some very important features like cl_cmdbackup. With SDK Base I have noticed I can pigstick, see blood and yet the victim lives. I can pump 4 shotgun rounds into the hidden at close range in a corridor and hit once? I didn't have this problem with the standard install and cl_cmdbackup is present. Hmmmmm...

Thief
12th February 2007, 10:25
Yeah.. exactly like that..

Sometimes i run behind the iris guy and slashing with knife but none of the strikes doesnt make any damage..

Its really frustrating.

Mayhem
12th February 2007, 16:48
Just live with it. If you find THAT annoying then you havent seen 8 nonregs in a row or throwing pallets to a guy without doing any dmg. (You can definitely hear the 'ouch' voice, but nay dmg.)

Daedalus
12th February 2007, 18:31
Just live with it. If you find THAT annoying then you havent seen 8 nonregs in a row or throwing pallets to a guy without doing any dmg. (You can definitely hear the 'ouch' voice, but nay dmg.)

Okay phys nonregs never happened to me. If you throw something real hard and it bounces off it does do 5-15 damage.

Thief
12th February 2007, 18:45
Just live with it. If you find THAT annoying then you havent seen 8 nonregs in a row or throwing pallets to a guy without doing any dmg. (You can definitely hear the 'ouch' voice, but nay dmg.)

Heh.. Its quite hard to live with it.. Sometimes its goes quite extreme :(

Danni
18th February 2007, 16:53
I did a little test the other day. There are serious desync issues with the client and server state from quite simple physics. Go onto your server, set sv_cheats 1 and on your client cl_showerror 1. Every one of those errors is because the client physics and server physics disagree with one another which under most of the circumstances (colliding with half walls, stairs, etc) should _never_ happen.

The only times you should get an error is when you collide with another player or a moving object and not when you collide with a wall. :(

deltro
18th February 2007, 18:09
I did a little test the other day. There are serious desync issues with the client and server state from quite simple physics. Go onto your server, set sv_cheats 1 and on your client cl_showerror 1. Every one of those errors is because the client physics and server physics disagree with one another which under most of the circumstances (colliding with half walls, stairs, etc) should _never_ happen.

The only times you should get an error is when you collide with another player or a moving object and not when you collide with a wall. :(
Solution: Remove cl side physics. I don't mind a lagging floating box as long as it goes where it's supposed to.

Danni
27th May 2007, 03:15
You cannot "remove" client side physics. That is how HL's (Quake) netcode works. The client "predicts" the movements using client side physics and sends the same keystrokes to the server. The server replicates and sends a localplayer update back. The client verifies it is in the right place or warps to the correct place if not.

Without that "prediction" you would physically move at your updaterate with a lag of your ping+interp making the game totally unplayable. Imaging hitting the strafe left key, then the actual movement occurring 150ms later.

The problem is that the client and server physics are disagreeing to cause the desyncs. That should not happen when colliding with a wall!

chilly
27th May 2007, 09:23
Its the same as most of the mods I've played on the hl2 engine. Unless the setup is really really high performance (uber servers, uber clients, uber connections) a lot of problems creep in at all stages.

Danni
27th May 2007, 18:28
No thats not it. Watch an example -> http://images.animelab.com/hdns.wmv

This is with a linux dedicated server, both HL2MP and Hidden Source were executed from the same install, both of which are clean and shows the problem exactly.

Looks like the prediction code in Hidden Source is borked causings massive desyncs.