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Paegus
13th December 2006, 15:37
gist of it is that he's wearing that bandage over his eyes for a reason i assume so he doesn't actually see. be that because they broke them somehow, had to remove his eyes for some reason or the eyes just can't see anything anyway due to him bending light around himself. either way his other senses have compensated but they're still not as good as plain old eyes for perceiving the world around him.

so fog-of-war as used in rts games means you can't see beyond your various unit's sight range. for the hidden it would appear like usual map fog which starts point blank and fads out at some distance. since he's probably using sound for a lot of his navigation, the less he moves around the less the sounds change position so the dimmer his perception is aka closer the complete fade-out gets. as he moves around more the sound sources change more and the doppler gives his brain a better 'view' of his environment and the complete fade-out distance increases at some rate to its maximum.

using aura would wipe out this fog entirely as it's the ultimate expression of his senses and all that.

playing more on the aura it would be an idea to have the normal view be void of colour with something similar to the night vision overlay only for grayscale. not as easy i'm sure but the overall effect would be... err.. more realistic?

Cheesey
13th December 2006, 15:58
Interesting idea, but I don't wanna play as 617 just seeing grey...

Just cause his eyes are coverd he can still see. He's a genetic experiment, so maybe they "upgraded" his eyes, so he doesn't need to take the bind off. Maybe it's just necessary, cause without it, the light could hurt him or something like that. Similar to "Riddick"...

And it would also be a lil unfair, cause often good IRIS shot you from a far distance. Just think about the spawn on hdn_stalkyard. OMG, bullets are coming from.... where?

Paegus
13th December 2006, 16:18
if his eyes where 'better' like that he's be wearing funky shades instead.. or at least goggles of some sort. to me bandage says he no functional eyes.

a quick tap of the aura button will reveal where any stray bullets came from. and i'm not saying blind him completely but put some limit on it. say 6000 units when he's stationary and 12000 at top speed. for reference's sake a player is roughly 128 units tall.

edit°
13th December 2006, 16:21
provided its not someone using the AR and nailing you before you get the chance to know which way not to pounce to avoid arching straight into a hail of fire.

I think this idea would severely gimp the hidden and take a lot of fun out of the game.

Cheesey
13th December 2006, 20:43
That's just what I've ment. You lose too much time when you have to stop, aura, hide. Sometimes even without the fog I don't know who the hell is shooting now. ;)

EmeralDragon
14th December 2006, 17:38
I think the majority of the "terror" should come from being the IRIS. 617 is confident, fearless, and utterly insane. The IRIS are the ones that are suppose to be scared sh*tless. :p

I think I would hate having a "fog of war" as 617. Of course I haven't tried it, but I don't have to try elephant dung to know that I wouldn't like that either.

Cheesey
14th December 2006, 19:46
I think I would hate having a "fog of war" as 617. Of course I haven't tried it, but I don't have to try elephant dung to know that I wouldn't like that either.

Nice compare! :D I also think I'd hate it...;) But at least I'd give the fog-of-war a try... but not the elephant dung ;)

Skifer
21st December 2006, 13:36
How about the fog is there but each time a player shoots or jumps or does some loud movement he sees a little blue spark in indication on a sound in the distance.

Kira Yamato
21st December 2006, 13:39
How about the fog is there but each time a player shoots or jumps or does some loud movement he sees a little blue spark in indication on a sound in the distance.

That sounds a lot like NewType flash.

Skifer
21st December 2006, 13:46
Is that good or bad?.

Cheesey
21st December 2006, 13:57
How about the fog is there but each time a player shoots or jumps or does some loud movement he sees a little blue spark in indication on a sound in the distance.

Erm, so then the fog-of-war (fow) would be useless! Just camping IRIS wouldnt blink blue.

Skifer
21st December 2006, 14:03
Use the Aura then.

Cheesey
21st December 2006, 14:15
Use the Aura then.

You didn't get my point, if the IRIS would blink blue by moving or shooting, he would almost ALWAYS see them through the fow! (except campers, cause they dont move). So the fow would be USELESS, cause you just see everybody blinkin blue....

BTW, would look a lil weird too...

ProgrammedToConsume
21st December 2006, 15:26
You didn't get my point, if the IRIS would blink blue by moving or shooting, he would almost ALWAYS see them through the fow! (except campers, cause they dont move). So the fow would be USELESS, cause you just see everybody blinkin blue....

BTW, would look a lil weird too...

Yeah, wouldn't the fow just entice campers to camp?

Cheesey
21st December 2006, 16:36
You've got the point! In this "version" of the fow it would entice ppl to camp...

Paegus
21st December 2006, 16:48
How about the fog is there but each time a player shoots or jumps or does some loud movement he sees a little blue spark in indication on a sound in the distance.

yeah the burst of sound would reveal the surrounding area.

as for promoting camping hardly. if they fix aura to show up even in culled areas then campers will always show up. hiding in an optimized corner wont help one bit.

Cheesey
22nd December 2006, 00:05
yeah the burst of sound would reveal the surrounding area.

as for promoting camping hardly. if they fix aura to show up even in culled areas then campers will always show up. hiding in an optimized corner wont help one bit.

I don't know, is it fixable? Someone told me that's about the engine...

Paegus
22nd December 2006, 00:38
the current system just attaches the aura sprite to the models bones and renders the whole thing ignoring any obstructions... or tries to as you'll see occasionally on discovery where static props block the aura. no bones to be seen = no aura so when the model walks into a culled area you can't see it any more.

ideally the aura display would be separated from the actual model. the server would track each model's location and when aura is called draw a cluster of sprites scaled to the size appropriate for how far away the target is. it's slightly more work for the server to do though but i don't see why it can't or shouldn't be done. ideally it would be a random cluster concentrated at the iris's centre and spreading out diffusely but that would make it impossible to tell what direction the iris is facing, which is actually VERY useful... if not a bit unrealistic... :rolleyes:

wouldn't be too hard to include angles and draw the sprites appropriately i suppose.

does/did the Natural Selection Parasite work based on the model being rendered or not? i seem to recall some range problems without which it would probably result in HUD spam anyway.

Ging
22nd December 2006, 01:02
does/did the Natural Selection Parasite work based on the model being rendered or not? i seem to recall some range problems without which it would probably result in HUD spam anyway.

No, it just drew a single sprite over the player location.

Fluffy
2nd January 2007, 04:34
for reference's sake a player is roughly 128 units tall.

Nope, a 512x512 texture is 128 x 128 units. A player is about 72 units tall.

Matto
2nd January 2007, 06:17
This suggestion sounds surprisingly like the movie DareDevil.

ProgrammedToConsume
2nd January 2007, 23:22
This suggestion sounds surprisingly like the movie DareDevil.

Yeah, didn't realize that. But if so, the bullets would make it harder for the hidden to see because of all the noise.

Paegus
3rd January 2007, 00:11
bullets? the train screwed him up. bullets are single sharp cracks of sound that would give a clear response from his environment.

ProgrammedToConsume
3rd January 2007, 00:29
bullets? the train screwed him up. bullets are single sharp cracks of sound that would give a clear response from his environment.

Did you watch the whole movie? Fairly close explosions, gunfire, or general noise messed him up.

Paegus
3rd January 2007, 00:39
i recall pulses of detail that came from noises of any kind. the bit at the start in the train station is the only time i really recall him being screwed over by info overload.

ProgrammedToConsume
3rd January 2007, 00:49
im pretty sure some church bells(though those have nothing to do with hidden source) and a gun going off within a close radius of him. and if the hidden were to through a pipe bomb, that would make his vision go crazy due to the overload of noise

either way, it's still going to entice campers to camp if they know they can get away with it more

Fluffy
3rd January 2007, 01:27
im pretty sure some church bells(though those have nothing to do with hidden source) and a gun going off within a close radius of him. and if the hidden were to through a pipe bomb, that would make his vision go crazy due to the overload of noise

either way, it's still going to entice campers to camp if they know they can get away with it more

I dont know about the fog of war thing, But I would like some sort of effect simulating the use of "sound"

Maybe an added effect like a granade going off can effect the hidden greater by making his screen get all "static like" as if it were a camera, but with a more organic look... brightened up too. kind of like a flashbang but without the ringing... just a tossed around vision and a little static?

Also, maybe some added shaders around the guns (that maybe should be allowed to be turned off clientside) can be added to simulate the distortion the sound of the gun makes... Something like the effect you get from an explosion...

ProgrammedToConsume
3rd January 2007, 01:35
yeah, that would add a bit to the gameplay. iris(that can clearly see the hidden) would egt the idea that if a nade just happenned to go off at the hidden, they would have an increased chance of killing it since his vision is disrupted

Fluffy
3rd January 2007, 01:51
yeah, that would add a bit to the gameplay. iris(that can clearly see the hidden) would egt the idea that if a nade just happenned to go off at the hidden, they would have an increased chance of killing it since his vision is disrupted

well it already does that to the hidden, I'm saying that a quick "shudder" of static should appear on the hidden's screen when a nade goes off somewhat near him (and I mean anywhere from beneath his feet to all the way across the room. Since it's sound, it should effect him greater at much farther distances.)

The nade effect should also help to mess up hidden's who are nade spamming maybe...

ProgrammedToConsume
3rd January 2007, 01:59
sounds good, that solves would help with nade spamming. and with ps rage hinderring ps whores, gameplay will be(well...actually could be) infinitely better in b5

Skifer
3rd January 2007, 22:41
Well look at my idea but you could always use AURA for camping newbies.