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-SM-SUCKER
29th November 2006, 07:29
I was always wondering why you never do 16 points damage. Or 67? It's always either 5, 10, 20, 50, 100 or in very, very few cases 500. Isn't the damage calculated using weight and speed of the object? And sometimes you hit an IRIS really hard, he even gets shoved around but you inflict only 10 hp?
I post here in the suggestions-forum because I would really like to see that changed (if possible).

Cheesey
29th November 2006, 07:53
Yep, also wondered! I've tried it out with a friend, sometimes you can stand still and throw, 10HP, sometimes you can pounce towards him throwing... still 10HP, then sometimes more...

But yesterday I hit an IRIS with a barrel, clinging to a surface with it, then pounce-threw it. Afterwards he had 43HP... so I damaged him 57! (He was AFK...)

Demented
29th November 2006, 08:01
You could've done 20 and slashed him. =P

The rounded-to-5 damage might have to do with the game simplifying physics calculations. I'd imagine it also needs to prevent you taking 1-2 damage every time you bump into a crate.

Cheesey
29th November 2006, 08:43
You could've done 20 and slashed him. =P

Man I COULD, but I'd notice if I slash him! ;)



The rounded-to-5 damage might have to do with the game simplifying physics calculations. I'd imagine it also needs to prevent you taking 1-2 damage every time you bump into a crate.

Don't remember how many damage I got after a barrel tilted on me. But I think had been 3HP, don't know... :(

Its kinda odd, the bullets and slashes are calculated with dozens of post decimal positions, and throwing damage is calculated with 1, 2 ,3 ,5 ,10 ,20 ...

Kitty_Loaf
29th November 2006, 10:04
I wish the physic attacks were a bit more powerful but use a hell of a lot of stamina. That'll give the hidden an advantage with ranged attacks that can be used over and over, but the drain on stamina will make getting away a hell of a lot harder, and since you gave away your position WITH the item, it's doubly hard.

Could be an interesting implementation.

Daedalus
29th November 2006, 10:37
Hidden-shove, can't wait for it. :D

I've noticed a long time ago that if you try to flick a object very near a marine, it passes through them most of the time.

Sticking the object into them does nice damage, and can result in funny kills sometimes.

Paegus
29th November 2006, 11:03
objects in your hand are flagged as debris so there's no interaction with other players. otherwise you wouldn't be able to pounce around as hidden while holding them.

i would like it if the physics impacts where more consistent. i've got plenty of really good hits that do sod all damage. then the crappiest looking hits gib people.

as for the 57 damage. if you're too close and you try to swing something at him but miss you MIGHT have slashed him. alternatively if he was next to a solid he might have hurt himself on the impact with the wall but then that wouldn't qualify as damage you did to him. unconnected is a sneaky bastard..

-SM-SUCKER
29th November 2006, 11:15
I wish the physic attacks were a bit more powerful but use a hell of a lot of stamina. That'll give the hidden an advantage with ranged attacks that can be used over and over, but the drain on stamina will make getting away a hell of a lot harder, and since you gave away your position WITH the item, it's doubly hard.

Could be an interesting implementation.
DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT THAT!
I need stamina to create chaos. If a group gets burried with barrels from several different directions within seconds they start shooting in several directions. That's the action I want to see. Stamina drain would make it impossible to uphold a siege for as long as it is possible now.
It's not realistic, but gameplay would be improved if you would lose LESS stamina with a barrel (or similar) in your hands.

Cheesey
29th November 2006, 11:32
as for the 57 damage. if you're too close and you try to swing something at him but miss you MIGHT have slashed him. alternatively if he was next to a solid he might have hurt himself on the impact with the wall but then that wouldn't qualify as damage you did to him. unconnected is a sneaky bastard..

Yeah, might have happend, I don't know, but I'll see next time I play and kill smb. with physix :D!


Hidden-shove, can't wait for it.

QFFT! Me too! :D



Sticking the object into them does nice damage, and can result in funny kills sometimes.

Espescially when he is jumping ;)



I wish the physic attacks were a bit more powerful but use a hell of a lot of stamina. That'll give the hidden an advantage with ranged attacks that can be used over and over, but the drain on stamina will make getting away a hell of a lot harder, and since you gave away your position WITH the item, it's doubly hard.

Could be an interesting implementation.

No it wouldn't!

Less stamnia drain would be an option, but I'm quite fine as it is! Beside ovr, hdn and hex a phy would be nice! Where IRIS just can buy pistols and the 303 and equipment, and 617 has no knife... ;)

Euphoria
29th November 2006, 16:26
I second the phys idea. Would be very useful when trying to learn how to phys kill.

This will probaby never get implemented, but
when you hit someone in the face with a brick and they get ten dmg, you start to wonder why they aren't on the floor curled up into a little ball? I don't know of any game where pain inflicted is different to health dmg, but it would be sweet to have a pain gauze- the higher it is, the more obscured your vision is, and if it gets high enough you're slowed down.

People getting up after going into ragdoll has already been given a no over the question of how to do it, so falling to the ground from too much pain won't be coming about, but its nice to dream....

Cheesey
29th November 2006, 17:12
Don't tell me you have posted this idea in every thread!

Why should I curl up into a ball whe a brick hits my face? I'd do that if the brick would hit my balls.... :eek:

Zabiela
29th November 2006, 17:45
I think extra stamina drain would upset the balance. The hidden is already very very easy to kill when hes using physics.

Demented
29th November 2006, 18:31
People getting up after going into ragdoll has already been given a no over the question of how to do it, so falling to the ground from too much pain won't be coming about, but its nice to dream....

*points to Dark Messiah*
At least the "how to do it" is answered, if not the "will it ever".

Ging
29th November 2006, 18:34
*points to Dark Messiah*
At least the "how to do it" is answered, if not the "will it ever".

That doesn't actually answer "how to do it" - just "it can be done" - which I've known for ages...

It's more about finding the right bits in the SDK and forcing them to do what you want - I'd suspect motion controllers would do it, but it'd be horribly jury rigged.

starstriker1
29th November 2006, 23:57
Potentially, all you'd need to find is the orientation of the torso bone(s). If it's facing up, trigger an animation with the player getting up off his back, likewise if it's facing down.

However, I can't imagine the switch from player model to ragdoll and back would be all that pleasant, code wise, unless they give you a really easy way to interchange them.

Ging
30th November 2006, 00:37
Potentially, all you'd need to find is the orientation of the torso bone(s). If it's facing up, trigger an animation with the player getting up off his back, likewise if it's facing down.

It's getting the ragdoll into the right position to look natural getting up that's the major issue - dependant on the animation, you'd want to move the limbs to roughly the right locations before switching over to the fixed animation loop.

Sonic
30th November 2006, 00:39
My problem is how unrealistic the physics damage can be. Such as the time a car falling on top of me did 25 damage, and then proceeded to SLIDE off of me.

Paegus
30th November 2006, 00:53
idk why things like cars are even active phys objects. things that massive aren't really going to react to being shot by those piddly wee rifles. jumped on by a guy weighing 100kg or so maybe but for the sake for not getting stuck in phys-tar they could just be flagged 'motion disabled' and save the server however many calculations per second when some twit decides to stand on them... or hide in them.

Demented
30th November 2006, 01:05
A physics object that isn't moving is "asleep" and won't consume much more cycles than if it were motion disabled. And you can't pigstick cars if they're motion disabled. <_<

The numbers on the physics are a bit funky, by HL2 standard. Metal barrels should weigh a good ten times heavier, if they're actually filled with anything or made of anything heavier than thin aluminum, but if they were heavier, they'd be virtually immovable by the supposedly impressive "gravity gun". Not to mention that getting hit with a barrel would be instantaneously lethal.

Ging
30th November 2006, 01:08
idk why things like cars are even active phys objects. things that massive aren't really going to react to being shot by those piddly wee rifles.

The PS can move them - it used to be able to fling them about the place with gay abandon, but we toned it down slightly...

Zabiela
30th November 2006, 05:51
The PS can move them - it used to be able to fling them about the place with gay abandon, but we toned it down slightly...

Btw, how strong is the shove compared to the ps?

Cheesey
30th November 2006, 06:48
Btw, how strong is the shove compared to the ps?

And will it do any damage?

Sir Wankus Magpie
30th November 2006, 07:34
action half life had a good animation for being slammed to the ground


it was more of a dive but it look awesome


perhaps once the player is hit the animation starts and you are out of control

depending on which direction you hit him from you get different animation accordingly


prolly a bitch to code that though

but i have faith in the team

Paegus
30th November 2006, 10:21
The PS can move them - it used to be able to fling them about the place with gay abandon, but we toned it down slightly...

then how about keeping them 'asleep' until some massive damage (925 for instance) is done to them. phys-tar is just annoying.

Gusdor
30th November 2006, 10:42
action half life had a good animation for being slammed to the ground


it was more of a dive but it look awesome


perhaps once the player is hit the animation starts and you are out of control

depending on which direction you hit him from you get different animation accordingly


prolly a bitch to code that though

but i have faith in the team
This is starting to sound like work.....

Daedalus
30th November 2006, 12:59
The PS can move them - it used to be able to fling them about the place with gay abandon, but we toned it down slightly...

In b4 the cars in traindepot can't be moved that easily...

Does that mean the shove has less "shove" on phys objects?

Ging
30th November 2006, 13:31
In b4 the cars in traindepot can't be moved that easily...

Does that mean the shove has less "shove" on phys objects?

That's because the effect of the PS got toned down - or did you just completely ignore what I said?

The shove hasn't gotten anything yet.

Paegus
30th November 2006, 13:47
if all the ps does it jiggle the car a mm or 2 why bother really?

not that it isn't fun to hack the entity list with stripper and override their mass to something throwable...

Daedalus
30th November 2006, 15:07
That's because the effect of the PS got toned down - or did you just completely ignore what I said?


Thought you meant that in b5 the pigstick got it's push nerfed...

@Paegus: You can turn over that white van in traindepot with a little effort.

Cheesey
30th November 2006, 15:34
Yeah, but you just can cause it's not placed properly! ;) Or is that the blue car? :confused:

Sir Wankus Magpie
1st December 2006, 00:26
This is starting to sound like work.....


Im glad you take this mod that seriously gus lol ;)

Demented
1st December 2006, 00:40
Yeah, but you just can cause it's not placed properly! ;) Or is that the blue car? :confused:

You can shove the white van around with the pigsticker. The car near the white van will jump when it's first touched for the reason you state, but it's too heavy to shove by more than a couple inches each pigstick.

Cheesey
1st December 2006, 06:36
Thought i mixed them up....! ;) But maybe you should post it in the mapping-thread for map-suggestions so boxy can do something against it...

Paegus
1st December 2006, 10:08
You can shove the white van around with the pigsticker. The car near the white van will jump when it's first touched for the reason you state, but it's too heavy to shove by more than a couple inches each pigstick.

valve > logic: burned out sedan is heavier than a similarly burned out van?

Demented
1st December 2006, 10:51
*shrug*
If it's not a mistake, I'd say that the van is hollowed out, moreso than the sedan is, hence the issue. But I'd be betting that it's a mistake, or Valve expected to use the van for certain purposes.

Ging
1st December 2006, 10:53
Mass can be set by the mapper remember - so the real person to ask would be ed.

Paegus
1st December 2006, 11:35
yeah... bouncing vans but unthrowable bar-stools makes me sad

Cheesey
1st December 2006, 12:03
yeah... bouncing vans but unthrowable bar-stools makes me sad

Me too! As do unthrowable crates and barrels and tables :(!

Ging
1st December 2006, 12:27
There are (to the best of my knowledge) no non-throwable barrels in any official maps...

Paegus
1st December 2006, 13:25
tables i can deal with... they're usually pretty heavy. the only crates that you can't throw are the longer ones and of course the brush-based ones.

those bar-stools just irk me...

Sir Wankus Magpie
1st December 2006, 18:51
A few objects on trainyard like the gas canisters would be ideal to make a little lighter because you can aim with them very easily.

The tires on the flat bed train car work very well but don't have enough punch to them so i guess that might be a mapper thing as well?

This makes me think of how stupid the PhysX cards are and how badly they screwed up!

we wouldn't be having this discussion if physX cards were cheaper and helped with relieving the CPU and GPU instead of making them work harder and actually were worth the trouble of buying.


Imagine how crazy it would be if all the boxes in Stalkyard were moveable and for some crazy reason it didn't lag! :cool:

Paegus
1st December 2006, 20:00
A few objects on trainyard like the gas canisters would be ideal to make a little lighter because you can aim with them very easily.
if you're referring to the ones on that push cart... they are already throwable and do a fair amount of damage when thrown properly.


The tires on the flat bed train car work very well but don't have enough punch to them so i guess that might be a mapper thing as well?
pretty sure they're stock tyres. either way they can do upwards of 50~100 damage when thrown properly... can't they prince?

-SM-SUCKER
1st December 2006, 21:03
if you're referring to the ones on that push cart... they are already throwable and do a fair amount of damage when thrown properly.


pretty sure they're stock tyres. either way they can do upwards of 50~100 damage when thrown properly... can't they prince?
Thrown properly you can gib a marine even with a wooden crate. Looks awesome.
Thrown properly every barrel becomes a ranged pigstick :D

Demented
1st December 2006, 21:46
This makes me think of how stupid the PhysX cards are and how badly they screwed up!

we wouldn't be having this discussion if physX cards were cheaper and helped with relieving the CPU and GPU instead of making them work harder and actually were worth the trouble of buying.

We probably still would, given that physX didn't come out before HL2, as far as I know, and Valve's not very speedy about upgrading their engine.

Paegus
1st December 2006, 23:26
do they even work with havoc?

/waits for quad cpus where 2 are normal cpus, and the other 2 are hybrid gpu and ppu which are able to handle non-graphics and physics stuff but not quite as efficiently as the 1st 2. just think of all the jiggabites!

Demented
2nd December 2006, 00:01
Havok and physX are competition, in a sense. Havok isn't very interested in making Havok cards, they're just poking ATI instead. Though, since AMD bought ATI, maybe Havok's poking AMD now.

I'd think that a dedicated GPU/PPU on the additional cores of a CPU would be a waste.

Isolation
2nd December 2006, 00:34
just think of all the jiggabites!

*Ahem*

"Jiggabites? What the hell is a jiggabite!?"

Yeah. Bad "Back to the Future" pun, but it was worth it. Despite spelling "byte" wrong.

acreech
2nd December 2006, 06:07
*Ahem*

"Jiggabites? What the hell is a jiggabite!?"

Yeah. Bad "Back to the Future" pun, but it was worth it. Despite spelling "byte" wrong.

1.21 gigawatts!?

Paegus
2nd December 2006, 08:58
Yeah. Bad "Back to the Future" pun, but it was worth it. Despite spelling "byte" wrong.

the original pronunciation of giga is like gillian : /j/illian. Doc was indeed saying 1.21 gigawatts. Online types, who thought they actually knew stuff, decided for whatever reason to use jiggawatt. Possibly in an attempt to make fun of the movie (so firefox2's spell checker doesn't have 'movie'?) not pronouncing it 'correctly' because came out before most people had ever heard the prefix in its original form.
they say jiggawatts... which is a misspelling. i said bites because since i was already misspelling the word i decided that i might as well do it properly.

Cheesey
2nd December 2006, 22:56
There are (to the best of my knowledge) no non-throwable barrels in any official maps...

I actually ment WIP's*, wouldn't dare to say something against your work :D! Hmm, but in - maybe I mixed something up - hdn_executive, there are some bar stools on the 617-spawn you can't throw, aren't there?

* hnd_mobscene. Barrels=throwable, small crates = not throwable :(! (And there are also many small crates...)


A few objects on trainyard like the gas canisters would be ideal to make a little lighter because you can aim with them very easily.

Hmm, you mean the small round ones on the very left side (IRIS-spawn view)? They ARE throwable....