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View Full Version : Leader Board Gone - but only if you want it gone



chilly
28th August 2006, 21:36
Hi,

So, we've removed the leader board and we'll be keeping a very close eye on the forum for your opinions etc and the outcome of this poll.

Feel free to flame/moan/thank us etc for this move.

We have made it with the blessing of Ging and believe it will be a good move. For those who want to compare yourselves to your friend - that feature will be available very shortly (as in tonight, I'll write it once I've finished writing this ;) ).

So, vote, comment, and we'll do whatever you decide in a week.

hutch
28th August 2006, 21:58
Wonderful, I kinda stayed out of the other topic, but I really do think ranking hurts games. Thanks guys.

ThunderDan
28th August 2006, 22:22
I think people want it gone because it is their excuse for people coming on servers to be asses. But, once it is gone and people are still asses, they will have to find something else to blame it on.

I do think there needs to be a different method such as the skill method psychostats uses.
I'd recommend 2 leader boards side by side. One that highlighted phys kills (huge bonuses for physkills) and one that went by the regular system (kill death skill equation of some sort).

Paegus
28th August 2006, 22:27
look good so far. but we'll have to see how it effects the ingame play as thunderdan suggested.

khu
29th August 2006, 00:01
The old leaderboard was sorted purely by kills, right?

How about a leaderboard that is based on a to-be-determined mix of:

Hidden Stats
1) Average kills per round
2) Rounds won / rounds played (as Hidden)
3) physkills

IRIS Stats
1) Average damage done to Hidden
2) Rounds won / rounds played (as IRIS)

spacedkadet
29th August 2006, 00:13
I will keep it simple ----


THANK YOU!!!

stats as before ruin the game!

I look forward to a new way of stating hdn:s

butterқnife
29th August 2006, 00:16
You get a thumbs up from me. I rarely check the main page of stats as my bookmark is directed straight to my stats page. I just like to see how I'm doing personally (well sorta as my roommate plays on my computer alot) and don't really care to see a leaderboard. I think it is for the better that it is gone. Two things that aren't exactly on topic here... can we get your Kill:Death ratio on your player page (so you don't have to go look at the signatures) as well as your # of suicides? (Watch out Fluffy!)

-SM-SUCKER
29th August 2006, 00:22
As I'm no real fan of ranking in any form I like the stats as they are now, without leader board. But you can still check if you do to many pipe kills. It won't be a great change to the gameplay, I'm sure because people playing to win will still do it. There are still ingame stats though...

The M.A.N6
29th August 2006, 00:23
Leaderboard were kinda destroying the game. That was maybe just an impression, but anyway i think it's better without it.
Like some people here, i like to seeing my stats, just for fun ("Hey ! I made x Physic-kill, so fun !"). But it's annoying when it transform the game in a sort of Big Competition, or a PS/Nade-Race with guys that just play to win.

MiasmicAnomie
29th August 2006, 00:25
I like it being gone, although it was cool knowing that I floated around the edge of top 20 (Generally was somewhere between #18 and #23 or so, although I don't actually play to keep myself there).

I'd like to see other stats in the personal pages and/or sigs, like Hidden Kill / IRIS Kill ratios, Hidden Kill / Hidden Death, IRIS Kill / IRIS Death, etc. They're pretty easy to compute yourself, but it would be nice to show them.

chilly
30th August 2006, 02:18
We'll certainlytake these suggestions on board from you guys.

Alt
30th August 2006, 15:30
I am mildly against the idea purely because to me, now, Hidden-Stats is completely pointless. This was done to prevent people acting like 'asses' you say?

chilly
30th August 2006, 16:39
We never expected it to be a fix for people acting like asses - thats just unrealistic and silly. We did, however, think it might help a *bit*.

Personally I prefer having the page there I think (and I can still see it anyway, but that's cos I'm magic) and I can sympathise with those of you who miss it. But from the response to the vote and the comments left here I think it probably isnt coming back to the public page any time soon.

We may offer an 'alternative' top 20 - with a more intersting ranking algorithm, but that can wait a while. We are happy to let the kills aggregate and work on new features - like the pig stick recognition and damage logging.

We will probably put up a "most deadly" listing of players or something. IE - most damage-per-hit (obviously normalised to weapons) rating per player, or something like that.

Suggestions on a postcard!


Chilly

Dr.SharK
30th August 2006, 16:49
THANK YOU!!!



'Nuff said'

EDIT; Notice how h4rd2sEE has stopped playing... Yeah... What a stat whore

Felf
30th August 2006, 21:35
Thanks man, glad you took the suggestion onboard :D

Other than the lack of phys_kills, I think the stats system is PERFECT now. No leaderboard = no way to tell if ur best, only compare against your friends. Therefore less stats-whores, therefore more fun. Not that people won't still play to own - some people don't even know that the stats pages exist. But at least now the effect that people were so worried with about the stats page (people whoring) has been negated, while we can all still view our personal (and friend's) stats.

Oh, one more thing. Is there to be a way of directly comparing 2 sets of stats on-site, as per BF2Stats.com ?

chilly
31st August 2006, 08:37
http://hidden-stats.co.uk/compare.php

Daedalus
31st August 2006, 12:16
I leave hidden for a few days and this happens...







Excellent. :D

Villi
31st August 2006, 21:51
If you're going to have a leaderboard I think you should go with a point system.

The different types of kills should give different score (not to be determined by me) while dieing and tk-in has negative affect on the score.

Also if the 'ratings' work out and really displays a players skill you could borrow from a common rating system in RTS games; If you kill a player rated higher than you get a higher score than you get if you kill a player ranked lower than you, and if you die to a player rated lower than you, you lose more points than you would to an equally or higher rated player.

chilly
31st August 2006, 21:54
If you're going to have a leaderboard I think you should go with a point system.

The different types of kills should give different score (not to be determined by me) while dieing and tk-in has negative affect on the score.

Also if the 'ratings' work out and really displays a players skill you could borrow from a common rating system in RTS games; If you kill a player rated higher than you get a higher score than you get if you kill a player ranked lower than you, and if you die to a player rated lower than you, you lose more points than you would to an equally or higher rated player.

Currently a TK is worth -2, killing hte hiden as IRIS is +2 and killing an IRIS as Hidden is +1. Suicides dont count at all.

RaideR
1st September 2006, 11:47
ok here is my 50 cents on this.

Because of the nature of "Global Stats" over a given time. It is useless to rank people based on kills and deaths. or even construct a point system. It will ALLWAYS bias towards the longer standing players.

Battle Field 2 Stats work well because even tho they have a rank in the work this is based on an extreamly complicated form of progresive point anylitics. Which basicaly make a form of progresion on different proccess goals.

Hidden Stats is about oo 0.2% the complexity of BF2 stats, but stats still the same. And without coding it like an award system, and "battle rank" i.e. I.R.S.I . Team Leader for example or Teams COmmander, or General etc etc. the ranking would just be pointless.

To be honest the ranking was one of the easiest stats to show, hence it being shown at the start. But due to the nature of gamers that it produced i think after the public vote, i will officaly say that the "rank" as it has been known is gone for ever.

Kind Regards,
Robert "RaideR" Baxter-Kaneen

ThunderDan
1st September 2006, 13:40
Yeah - them crazy BF2 stats - so... complicated - 2 points for kills, 1 point for team assist, 2 points for flag cap, -6 (I think) for tk. I don't see the rocket science, but ok.

The reason rankings don't work yet for Hidden is the size of the community, and the gameplay. In BF2 - no one really cares about being number 1. The only thing that matters is your rank against your friends rank (10345 vs 11643). This occurs cause there are simply so many people. Also, the game play style of BF2 makes it so one person can't run a whole server and collect stats. Yes, there are those who are clearly better, but by them being better it doesn't mean you won't collect points also.

In hidden 1 person every round has the chance of getting 2 points for killing the Hidden and 1 person has a possible 8 points for killing all IRIS. That's it really.

If the weapon was attached to a hurt message then there could be a nice complex ranking system that everyone had a chance to get points even with out the kill. Right now we can't do that. Anyway, I got to be going to school. Peace.

Alt
3rd September 2006, 01:05
Heres a thought, RaideR can you restrict weapon usage (number of sticks, pipe bombs etc) based upon stats?

Ging
3rd September 2006, 01:43
what's with the obsession with restricting weapons?

hutch
3rd September 2006, 04:11
what's with the obsession with restricting weapons?
people want to make life difficult?
:p

chilly
3rd September 2006, 06:12
Heres a thought, RaideR can you restrict weapon usage (number of sticks, pipe bombs etc) based upon stats?


I'd like to point out that the hidden stats crew have virtually nothing to do with the Hidden Source devs, we merely moan at them for various log features!

Felf
3rd September 2006, 07:31
why would you do that ? :eek: Seriously, stats for for just that - stats. They shouldn't affect gameplay. Hence taking out the leader-board.

Daedalus
3rd September 2006, 08:59
people want to make life difficult?
:p

For others, yes.