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Felf
10th August 2006, 11:17
It struck me that it might be useful for somebody (a trusted server admin) to compile a comprehensive list of banned users. It also struck me that someone has probably already thought of this. If so, could someone please direct me to it, so that I can download it. If not, I'm happy to do so. Now, I'm NOT a server admin, but i CAN promise to look at every demo before I ban a user.

So, I need to know BEFORE I start compiling the list (I don't really want to be wasting my time) whether this is already being done or not. If it's not, I need to know whether or not you guys will trust me to keep a list, and whether you will actually USE it - there's no point it being made if no-one uses it.

The format of the list would be simply as a list of steamID's. On another list (also accessable to all visitors to the site) will be a similar list, but presented like this:

SteamID, Nickname at the time, link to demo/screenshots.

The reason for the two seperate lists is to make it easier for you to ban more people - you should be able to simply copy and paste all the steamID's from the first list into your ban file. The second lot is so that you can check the demos if you want to - if you find one that you don't think should be on the list, I'll have another look at the demo, and if nessecary remove them (although all the demos will be checked BEFORE adding people to the list, so as to help guard against false positives.)

So, is there enough interest from server admins for me to do this, and if anything's wrong with what I've suggested, how can it be made better?

Merciless
10th August 2006, 13:00
can you imagine uploading every single demo? i think the post should be by somebody of a "universal un-biast" status, without the demos, just the name and steam ID and what they did.

somebody like a dev if they have the time.

Tony
10th August 2006, 17:19
Many SourceForts servers use a plugin created by devicenull of the SourceForts community. With SF, the bases can be destroyed by a noob on a rampage, so keeping out players that just wan't to cause harm is important.

It's moderately effective- just restrict those who are allowed to add to the list to trusted community members.

Dr.Dwatson
10th August 2006, 19:37
Problem with evry universal ban list as you put it is:
1. What if somone is cheating but is a mod of that list.
2. What if somone got added by a mistake
3. What if somone coud break into it and add players to it for the fuck of it.
4. Can the maker of the list be trusted.
5. Who will have the power of adding other mods
6. Are there any way of revesing the list shoud there be an error in it.

This is why i think evry universal list is a bugger, its not right.
No dont missunderstand me here, I do not like cheaters/TK`ers/TD`ers and the like, but i do not belive that a universal list is the solution.

HeLLsLaYer
10th August 2006, 20:19
Some servers bans for team damaging, some for persistant team killing, wich rules should be used then???
Since all servers dont use the same rules, a universal ban-list would suck... :(

ThunderDan
11th August 2006, 03:30
Umm... If you search there was a topic on this about 3 maybe 4 months ago. There's some good stuff in that thread, but no one really wanted to create the code for the system. It would have to allow a voting type system and it would log who accepted it. Like lets say I trust Miasmic over there at dead and I want to auto add anything he put on his list, and then I'd go thru and select some of my own. Or have a filter just for Hackers. Also, the system wouldn't show SteamID to the public and would just generate a ban file.

Umm - I'll post more later - I got to go play some games.

neebo
11th August 2006, 04:12
sort of a good AND bad idea.. there are some admins out there ( and we all know this) who just ban people because they feel like it.

JaCoL
11th August 2006, 05:12
We just needs 1 person that views the demos and makes an universal bannedlist, justifying every ban by replying the cause of it in the topic with the demo. You can see an example of what I mean here http://gaming.ngi.it/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=424

The banned list of this community is used in every italian server and even some european ones.

edit°
11th August 2006, 10:51
I think the best you'll get is a sticky full of the server admin's banfiles, updated once a fortnight with replies and then the OP editted by a mod.

Felf
11th August 2006, 16:46
As for the trust issues, as I said in my post there would be a list with links to the demos next to each one.

As for the rules, that could be discussed later - and if you didnt like the rules there would be no reason for you to use the list. I was thinking something along the lines of teamkilling (obviously with exceptions for accidents), team damaging (again, with the obvious exceptions) and any kind of hacks.

As for a mod being a "h4x0r", well, you can either trust me on that, or not. If I were to generate this list, I would do it with only myself and a few other trusted people - ie. well-known server admins who were willing to take part.

I was actually thinking of something VERY similar to the one linked to by JaCol, but as I say, with links to each demo.

I would also ask for the complete ban files of some server admins, but they would be in a seperate list, so that if you don't trust them, you can still use the main list, all of which you can verify by looking at the linked-to demos.

ThunderDan: This system wouldn't need coding. It would be a simple webpage with the affore-mentioned lists on it. In order to add someone, a user would have to email/PM/whatever me a report, with a link to a demo, and with the person's steamID. I would also read this forum, to get any that were only reported here.

As for errors, users could simply be removed by a mod (me). But that shouldn't happen, since every ban will require a demo.

Since the list would be text only, admins would have to update their banlists manually, but I could make sure that the list were presented in such a way as to make copy-and-pasting very easy indeed. The list could easily be updated every fortnight or so.

Merciless: The only way to be unbiased AND FAIR is to view each demo and only add people if you see what they have done wrong. Otherwise, you risk adding people who don't deserve to be banned.

EDIT:: Now, could I have (from SERVER ADMINS) some simple yes/no answers please? Would you use the list or not, or if not, could you make a change to what I've said to make it useable? If I don't get enough yes's, I shalln't bother.

edit°
11th August 2006, 18:54
I would use it but I wouldn't really contribute. Since I've had admin rights to smokey's I've not got one demo. Its not worth the hastle.

Dead Inside
11th August 2006, 19:37
I think most admins will be the same, recording a demo for everyone banned is just to much hassle and when a lot of bans are taken care of by admin plugins then other than logs of it theres usually no proof.

What you would be left with is purely player reports and most admins tend to check these out themselves as posted anyway.

It could save some time though and also be helpful for new admins looking to easily compile a list.

You'd also have to be fairly confident about your ability to distinguish cheaters, if you were ever proven to have made a mistake that could cause many many problems.

Felf
12th August 2006, 08:53
OK then, I don't think I shall bother. Just a thought. :rolleyes:

Scuzzy
12th August 2006, 21:31
I agree that the idea of a universal ban-list is a difficult thing to decide on. Rules from server to server are different. I think the best solution you'll find is the trusting of certain admins and their procedures and using their ban lists if they make them available.

Perhaps a sticky or a page here that each admin could add their link too. That way they provide a page that lists out the rules they ban by, the evidence, and the cfg file.

As I've posted before, we display our team-kill bans and the evidence straight out of our database and provide a cfg file. These don't include all of the bans on our servers, only the Hidden TK ones. And most of the Hidden TK bans are automated at this point. The reason for banning is listed with each ban. For instance: <b>Banned permanently. Reason: (VogtTools) For intentional team killing (3 in under 60 seconds) on the Hidden:Source server.</b>

http://www.oldtimersclan.com/ot_hiddentkers.php

Scuzzy

Scuzzy
12th August 2006, 21:33
I forgot to mention, we'll be trolling through this forum for evidence of others on other servers and adding them to our list.

Scuzzy