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ChR!$
25th June 2006, 22:45
Hi sorry i dont know how to write this...
And sorry for my bad english ;)

I have got banned from ur two server :(( they are the only good server thay i know....

I was killed by an team mate 2 times... than mapchange , and he kills my for 2 times. than i have shoot back next round and kill him and an other ang got banned :( i am sorry about that and wisch to play on ur server please.

My Steam id ist : STEAM_0:0:4096307

hutch
25th June 2006, 23:22
no one knows what serve you've been banned from or when ....

Ging
26th June 2006, 00:22
I'd reckon on Smokeys... as their server message says to come here to get in touch with the admins...

ChR!$
26th June 2006, 01:56
Oh sorry.. I have been Banned from the two Smokys server

-SM-SUCKER
26th June 2006, 09:01
No teamkilling allowed on smokeys. Not even if someone shot you in your back, any teamkilling performed delibirate will be punished with perm bans on smokeys and are nothing to be discussed. Its stated in the motd and in several automated server messages. Next time get a demo, ss of his steam id and post it here, then this guy will get the ban, not you.

ChR!$
26th June 2006, 14:47
Ok, i will do , I am realy sorry about that.
So can i go on playing on the Smokys Server ?

edit°
26th June 2006, 14:55
No.

With playing WoW I've had maybe 3 games in the past fortnight on hidden and in all of them I ended up having to ban at least one per game.

ChR!$
26th June 2006, 16:58
I know it was wrong now, i wont do something like that again.
Me and my friends have only play on the smoky server : /
It wont happen again , realy

Cyborg
26th June 2006, 17:21
how do we know that you werent doing it deliberately?

CheZDa
26th June 2006, 17:25
I really love smokeys attitude towards tkers. :)

And sucker, kinda hard to get a demo next time as he's been perm banned, don't you think? :D

B oBo
26th June 2006, 17:34
Hallo,
Iam the friend of Chris and we played the most time on smokey server, because of the good pings and the custom map server was great.
The custom Maps i have only see on this server and i would like to play on them with my friend...
We are really nice and fair players, Chris just got angy because of the player called "hurengehen???" who killed him 4 times in a row directly when we spawned (the name means in english: "prostitutewalking"...)
Sooo could the admin be so nice to deban Chris? Next time we will make a demo and screenshot.

If you say No very clearly we dont bother you anymore but we will be sad

edit°
27th June 2006, 10:59
No.

Theres the answer. Sorry but we can't unban one or we would have to unban them all.

Cranky
27th June 2006, 14:44
I really love smokeys attitude towards tkers. :)

And sucker, kinda hard to get a demo next time as he's been perm banned, don't you think? :D

There might be a next time on another server, perhaps? Smokeys attitude towards tkers is fine, but a good writeup of 300+ words to the admin asking for unban and stating several reasons for the admin to do so would definately mean that the player obviously cared when he got banned and wanted to go back. Those kind of writeups are generally considered to be fair. Once server admins gets one in they read it, replies with a yes or no and it's settled. This would mean that everyone would be able to unban themselves but few would bother. Problem solved and banned people that really wanted to play gets unbanned. simple solution, IMO.

ChR!$
28th June 2006, 04:19
: / ok thats an clearly answer, but dont you think an 5 day oder 3 hour ban was better for tkler ? an permanent ban is realy hard :( I reala love the smoky server there i had my best times in Hidden, and the custom map server is great :(
I think my ban is realy to hard :( , so I only can hope that you are so nice to me to deban me some time, Bye an thank you for your answers ;)

Dead Inside
29th June 2006, 00:22
I'd reckon on Smokeys... as their server message says to come here to get in touch with the admins...

Yeah, sorry about that, i'd been aiming to have smokeys website up ages ago but it just never happened, i've got a basic site running, i'll try and get the forum up and update the contact details in the next few days.

Then i can say "no" in far more colourful ways ;)

I'll make a proper post here once its sorted and hopefully catch most of them before we all drown in "gomz unban me plz" threads.


And the bans are permanent for a good reason, reoffending is VERY common.

Out of the 370+ bans on our servers most are for tk'ing, the majority were banned for multiple teamwounding/killing offences as well.

Punishment options are available and automatic bans ensue if these options are used (as i'm sure you are aware)

The adverts on screen during play and the motd text make the rules very clear and even state that bans are automatic. They also clearly state about reporting teamkillers and what proof is required. There is no excuse for them being ignored.

Basically our method means there are 370 odd troublemakers you won't have to put up with on our servers and 370 people i don't have to worry about causing trouble and emptying my servers. Sadly we do still need to regularly ban people, however i'd rather deal with a relatively small number of newcomer morons than them combined with a large established base of troublemakers which temp bans would leave me with.

SkaveRat
29th June 2006, 00:42
Out of the 370+ bans on our servers most are for tk'ing, the majority were banned for multiple teamwounding/killing offences as well.
Could you send me the banlist? :D

gobblet
3rd July 2006, 20:38
Could you send me the banlist? :D

Just regestered here to post this. This is such a bad idea. Sharing ban-lists around is just going to create empty servers.

Earlier today I too was banned from Smokey's servers for "TK'ing". Actaully, I just got fed up of being team-wounded by the same person so I retaliated. Do you expect me to stand there and let him ruin my game? I got no warnings, just one 'offence' = ban.


The adverts on screen during play and the motd text make the rules very clear

Be realistic. I'm going to make a safe assumption that most people who play just log on for 10-20 minutes to have some fun then go off and do something else. I've got better things to do than to read the MOTD of every server I go on to make sure I don't violate any special server rules. That doesn't mean to say I go around as if there were no rules; I observe normal server policys, no cheating, TK'ing, abusing, etc in normal situations.

Let's be honest, H:S doesn't have the biggest player-base in the world. Banning people so heavy-handidly(sp) is going to give you empty servers. All your doing with this approach is letting the real troublemakers (the one's that TW you to low health without killing you) win with no reprocussions(sp). Is that the kind of person you want on your server?

edit°
3rd July 2006, 22:11
What makes you think we don't ban them as well?


Earlier today I too was banned from Smokey's servers for "TK'ing". Actaully, I just got fed up of being team-wounded by the same person so I retaliated.

You retaliated by TKing, I don't see why you put "TKing" when its actually what you did. :rolleyes:

It was me that banned you for tking because people like you who decide that because someone does something wrong in your eyes you can TK them present two problems:

a) finding real tkers becomes hard when theres 5 "I tked him because he tked me"ers in the game (or not - with our rules)

b) if someone camps somewhere or wins too much so that you don't like it, we can't guarantee you won't tk them too


Smokey's are rarely empty and we have plenty of regulars who come back time and time again because they know we won't stand for any stupidity. The server has an autoban in place for three slapped TKs. So if you had been "observing normal server policys, no cheating, TK'ing, abusing" the tker would have been banned anyway.

If he hadn't actually killed you and just wounded you, you could have gone the other way and got evidence (also in the MOTD) and posted it here - the TWer would be banned by every admin reading this now and you wouldn't be banned from our servers.

You broke the rules and got banned for it. We (we being most folk reading this now) KNOW that these rules work.

SkaveRat
3rd July 2006, 22:17
I share exact the same phylosophy as edit - So it wouldn't mind to build up a small ban-network

Ging
3rd July 2006, 22:40
Be realistic. I'm going to make a safe assumption that most people who play just log on for 10-20 minutes to have some fun then go off and do something else.

If you're playing on smokeys, than in those 10 - 20 minutes you'll see the rules about TKing repeated a number of times, if it hasn't sunk in by then than you deserve the ban, it's as simple as that!

As for our player count - compared to what? mods that have been established for 3 - 4 years? I agree, it's not as high, but we do have the second highest player count in regards to Source mods and then we're only second to GMod, which is tbh, some freak occurance in that respect...

gobblet
4th July 2006, 00:19
a) finding real tkers becomes hard when theres 5 "I tked him because he tked me"ers in the game (or not - with our rules)

That's fair enough. This is the internet after all. :)

All I suggest is firstly; no global ban list. This is a bad idea for so many reasons. As I posted before this is the internet, what's to stop abusive admins getting innocent people banned? Secondly that perhaps you ease up slightly on your first offence = ban policy. I was banned after just a few seconds (of admitting to the TK no less), surley a little more investigation of the matter is in order?


in those 10 - 20 minutes you'll see the rules about TKing repeated a number of times

Too busy looking for invisible things. :(

Anyway in the end it's your server and your rules. It's a shame 'cause I enjoyed Smokey's. Ah well back to my WoW-fix...

edit°
4th July 2006, 00:39
Thats the thing. By admitting to TKing deliberately theres no need for any investigation at all. Deliberately TKing on our servers isn't something we can have being done. The guy teamwounding was also banned when I checked the log.

By banning you I didn't make any judgement about you and theres no ill feelings anywhere. Its just that our rules when we're playing the game aren't the same as yours. This is the main reason we don't publish the banlist or even keep it up for download anywhere. Back when there weren't many servers and even fewer populated servers a ban on smokey's could severely limit your chances at getting into a game with more than one or two players in europe. That kind of cattleprodding normally had people act differently when they got to whatever servers they ended up in by all accounts.

People can have a second chance, but since we want our servers to be the place where players don't have to deal with TKing etc, they can't have the second chance on smokey's.

And if you're alliance on outlands sling me a PM. You can spank me all over in a duel as a token of revenge ;)

Ion67
5th July 2006, 22:29
If this server is really strict on their policy, why weren't the people who were teamwounding them banned before they had to retaliate?

Ging
5th July 2006, 22:33
If this server is really strict on their policy, why weren't the people who were teamwounding them banned before they had to retaliate?

Immediate responses to teamwounding require an admin to be online at the time it happens or watching via HLSW - otherwise you have to do log checks / view demos.

Though I suppose there might be some form of server plugin out there that would track it for you.

Dead Inside
5th July 2006, 22:47
Because i don't have enough admins to watch all four servers 24/7 and there are very few other people i'd trust to give admin status on our servers at all to ensure there is more monitoring.

In most cases i'll monitor a suspected teamwounder to be sure they are doing it deliberatly since i do most of my admining remotely, so theres sometimes a little gap between offences noticable by people on the servers and a ban, this sometimes gives someone enough time to retaliate, thinking theres no admin around and they get themself a ban too. On other occasions i, or another admin, will just happen to have had a look at that particular server when the incident has taken place.

In short theres probably a fair few teamwounding offences we miss, but theres nothing much i can do about that at present for the reasons stated above. The rules are as clear as i can make them, if people don't follow them then things like this will continue to happen, no skin off my nose, my servers remain busy enough for me to be perfectly happy with their setup at present.

Also as stated in the official thread i created, all contact with us should now be made via http://www.smokeytarget.co.uk

New and previously addressed posts on this forum about bans from our servers will not receive any attention.

edit°
6th July 2006, 12:15
Most of the people I'm there to witness and ban in game get banned because I notice them TKing in revenge as I'm typing the ban out for the teamwounder. I take the time to explain to most revenge-tkers, with teamwounders etc I just don't.

deltro
7th July 2006, 06:31
Uh... what do you do about the person who silences a spawn team-killer, you know the kind, the ones that come in and as they spawn kill everyone. Just expect them to die until some admin comes to look at the server, or votekick him until he gives up?

Ging
7th July 2006, 10:39
If they're spawn killing on smokeys, use the provided punishment option to slap them - after three (i believe) slaps, they get banned... Wow, what a struggle!

Dead Inside
7th July 2006, 12:08
If they're spawn killing on smokeys, use the provided punishment option to slap them - after three (i believe) slaps, they get banned...
Yes indeedy, it helps keep our banlist in fine form as well!



Wow, what a struggle!
It really, really is for some people, i must add something about it to the adverts... although apparently no one pays attention to those either, despite being displayed in the chat section and also the top left corner in bright pink :rolleyes:

If its deliberate theres no reason not to slap them! Just don't be childish and slap people who clearly didn't mean it. Someone taking you out just before they get the hidden is rarely a deliberate act against you!

Several times i've had to deal with blatant deliberate teamkillers just because those who were teamkilled haven't bothered to punish them, this system is in place to help you enjoy a game free of morons that teamkill! SO FOR THE LOVE OF GOD USE IT!

We don't enable vote kick options either, they are exploited far too often, if theres something happening on the server that you really need an admin to deal with then report it, we are around quite alot, just not glued to the servers! As with any reports you'll want to get some proof, incase we don't get there quick enough. We've already had our first report (which resulted in multiple bans) on our new forum and we are eager for some more :D

edit°
7th July 2006, 12:30
As a rule, if I'm on my PC for any great length of time I tend to leave HLSW running logged into all the servers. Everynow and then I check the chatlogs for anyone screaming TKer. When it comes to shutting down time for HLSW I'll scroll really fast through the actual game log and see if theres ever a point where lots of the same name appears in a block. Normally the tker in that instance gets slapped three times and autobanned, but theres ussually about two or three players who decide that instead of (or as well as) slap the tker, they're going to do some tking too. So they get banned as well.

Paegus
7th July 2006, 12:39
pressing escape is far too complicated for most people...
it would probably be best to rig mani or whatever to execclient toggleconsole shortly after a TK forcing them to give some kind of responce or for the devs to get CS:S radio or AMX style menus working ingame so they get a nice menu right there. or if the admin tool can be made to use the IRIS/Hidden radiomenu... but that's kind of limited as there's only 8 options.

it's worse with map votes though. no one ever does.

Ging
7th July 2006, 16:03
What'd be best would be if valve had provided a shit method of doing menus for server plugins and then removed any form of support for the previous method.

Scuzzy
2nd August 2006, 12:13
It has taken a few weeks to tweek, but the automated system we use on the [o-t] servers does the following:

1) If you kill a teammate in the first 5 seconds of a round you're banned perm.
2) If you kill 3 people within 30 seconds you're banned perm.
3) If you kill 3 people within 30 minutes you're banned for an hour.
4) If you kill 6 people within 24 hours you're banned for 24 hours.

After each team-kill the server presents a message stating that continued team killing can result in a short term ban. This has kept the regulars very happy, and the team-killers who don't have a clue never return. It's not a perfect policy, but we haven't had a non-intentional perm team-kill ban yet. It also makes the players better shots.

Scuzzy

edit°
2nd August 2006, 13:17
The first one is a bit of a mistake, sometimes people are tapping fire from the previous round and get off a shotty blast into someones face. I've done it (albeit not recently) more than once.

Scuzzy
2nd August 2006, 19:31
The first one is a bit of a mistake, sometimes people are tapping fire from the previous round and get off a shotty blast into someones face. I've done it (albeit not recently) more than once.

We have the server pause for 10 seconds between rounds, everyone has their guns down and walks around after the Hidden is killed or wins. The players can't fire, they can only move around, that's how we get around the case you describe above. It definately has to be deliberate.

Scuzzy

Demented
2nd August 2006, 19:51
Once, in America's Army, I spawned and had a strange urge to fill the wall next to my spawn with bullets.

Then a teammate walked in front of me.

Kicked. Oops.
We call them "freak accidents", in honor of the dumbarses who commit them. =P