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Felf
12th June 2006, 11:38
Right, I know there's already a weighting thread, but it wasn't very constructive and turned into a flame-fest.

The question I ask is this: What are the weighting proportions? (and which actions exactly do you get weighted for?) For instance, how does "killing" the hidden compare to doing him, say, 80% damage ?

Ging
12th June 2006, 14:07
You get a point of weighting for each point of damage you do, there's a bonus of 50 for killing 617 but you lose 20 if you die.

Team wounding removes weighting to the level of damage done.

Supplying ammunition gives you a bonus of 20

A hit with the 303 gives a bonus of 25 (the DoT doesn't count towards your weighting)

At the point where a hidden is selected it starts a 'lottery' - it sums the total weighting value and assigns each player a space within the range of 0 to totalweight, the size of which depends on their weighting.

Finally, it selects a random number between 0 and totalweight, searches the players and assigns whichever player 'has' that number to be hidden.

GIGAR
12th June 2006, 14:14
You get a point of weighting for each point of damage you do, there's a bonus of 50 for killing 617 but you lose 20 if you die.

Team wounding removes weighting to the level of damage done.

Supplying ammunition gives you a bonus of 20

A hit with the 303 gives a bonus of 25 (the DoT doesn't count towards your weighting)

At the point where a hidden is selected it starts a 'lottery' - it sums the total weighting value and assigns each player a space within the range of 0 to totalweight, the size of which depends on their weighting.

Finally, it selects a random number between 0 and totalweight, searches the players and assigns whichever player 'has' that number to be hidden.
Does that mean, that it isn't sure that you are becomming the Hidden, even if you have the highest weighting?

peglegpete
12th June 2006, 14:48
Does that mean, that it isn't sure that you are becomming the Hidden, even if you have the highest weighting?
If you killed the hidden and did the majority of the damage to him, your chances are better than anybody else to become the hidden.

In fact if you deal more than 75 damage to the hidden, but did not kill him yet you still lived, you would still have the best chance at being the hidden. Doing 75 damage would mean the hidden only has 25 hp left, so whoever did kill him got 25 for the damage dealt and then 50 for the bonus, giving them 75 (equal to you). If you do 76 or more, then you have the best chance as long as nobody is giving out ammo or attacking with the 303. Though if you died, you would have needed to compensate for the 20 point loss by doing 10 more damage (85).


But I do have a couple questions. If you die without doing anything that earns you points, do you have zero (negative, really) chance to become hidden? If a player's weightsum is in the negatives, is it summed into the totalweight or just flat ignored?

And do the weights cumulate between rounds or is reset at the beginning of each?

Ging
12th June 2006, 15:00
If you die without doing anything, you have no chance of becoming hidden (as it should be) - if everyone dies without doing anything and the round limit is reached (so no one has weighting, but we need a new hidden) we swap to the random selection method for that selection.

A player with a weighting of 0 or below is ignored in the lottery, as they add nothing to the total weighting.

Weights are counted on a round by round basis (when you spawn, they get dropped to 0)

peglegpete
12th June 2006, 15:22
Weights are counted on a round by round basis (when you spawn, they get dropped to 0)

Not to beat a dead horse, but just wanted to be sure:
So let's say someone has killed the hidden three rounds in a row and done a good amount of damage each time (maybe close to the majority weight), yet they've been unlucky those three rounds in the lottery and been skipped over for hidden selection. There's nothing to give them a better chance at being picked despite their bad luck? Not really a big deal, but maybe a system to notice streaks could be conceptualized?

Probably more work than the benefit though, hehe. And of course, you already give a huge bonus to the hidden's killer, so that should be that.

Ging
12th June 2006, 16:07
They'd have to have the worse luck, ever to not manage to get picked three rounds in a row...

We'll see how it pans out, if we get lots of reports saying "I had a 90% chance of being selected, but I didn't, 5 times in a row" we'll look into dealing with streaks.

steve101101
13th June 2006, 17:17
I dislike the new weighting system. I have killed the hidden two time in arow, and i was not choosen as the new hidden. I liked the older way of choosing the hidden, you kill the hidden, you become the hidden. This allows the users that actually kill the hidden to get rewarded and become the hidden. please change this back to the way it was. Thanks

MiasmicAnomie
13th June 2006, 17:19
Find a server that has classic selection set, if that's the way you want to play.

Dr.SharK
13th June 2006, 17:20
I dislike the new weighting system. I have killed the hidden two time in arow, and i was not choosen as the new hidden. I liked the older way of choosing the hidden, you kill the hidden, you become the hidden. This allows the users that actually kill the hidden to get rewarded and become the hidden. please change this back to the way it was. Thanks

Weighted is a cvar. You can change back to the old method if you like.

Phoenix_Bomb
13th June 2006, 17:38
I dislike the new weighting system. I have killed the hidden two time in arow, and i was not choosen as the new hidden. I liked the older way of choosing the hidden, you kill the hidden, you become the hidden. This allows the users that actually kill the hidden to get rewarded and become the hidden. please change this back to the way it was. Thanks

You must not have done really ANY damage to him then. Be happy that there's still a bonus for people who get the kill. It's much more fair this way.

Cranky
13th June 2006, 19:17
I dislike the new weighting system. I have killed the hidden two time in arow, and i was not choosen as the new hidden. I liked the older way of choosing the hidden, you kill the hidden, you become the hidden. This allows the users that actually kill the hidden to get rewarded and become the hidden. please change this back to the way it was. Thanks

1. it's cvar. that means you can change it on your own (pwn, hehe(haha that was not funny at all)).
2. Read Gings reply in this thread about three times, or until you've got the message. It says that the rewards are based on damage as well as based on who killed hidden. And with what weapon and if they gave ammo and so forth. Now if you thought you understood that, read it again and again to finally get the conclusion that woops, you didn't do all that damage.
3. refer to 2.
4. "actually kill the hidden" = fragsteal. Think about it. Weighting pwns. period. And if you don't like it go to a normal server instead.

Felf
13th June 2006, 21:18
Thanks for the clear and concise summing up Ging. Much appreciated. :)

InsaneAction
14th June 2006, 11:18
Think of it as the fair way of picking a hidden.......

Broku
14th June 2006, 15:20
Hmm earlier I was in one of those types of servers and I had no clue what was going on, now I do! =D Thanks Ging!

personally I still like the absolute random a little better, sometimes I play with people who at the begining of the round run away from the team and kill the hidden in 10 seconds.

Also, I have seen a couple of times, people who know eachother and are working together as Hidden and I.R.I.S. and they meet somewhere secluded and kill eachother so they swap between Hidden and I.R.I.S. it got annoying after a while so I eventually TKed him and everyone thanked me. This then ended their little loop and the server resumed to the way it was supposed to be.

peglegpete
14th June 2006, 17:43
I motion to sticky this thread. Second?

Every weighted server I've been in, there are numerous people who do not understand the what/how/why of weighting and it's be nice to have a thread to point them to.

GIGAR
14th June 2006, 18:24
Funny thing is, that the weightning system are... Well pretty bad.
I played on a server that showed (in console) how much damage you did each round.
I did 14.46132 (or something) damage, and that's just one hit with the P90. (I think)
But I had a weightning of 0 wtf? (No, I did NOT shot at my team mates.)

Do you get -points for dying?

Phoenix_Bomb
14th June 2006, 18:25
Yes, you lose 20 points for dying.

GIGAR
14th June 2006, 18:28
Yes, you lose 20 points for dying.
But then I should have -5 points?

Phoenix_Bomb
14th June 2006, 18:29
Yes, but for some reason it's not working that way.

Broku
14th June 2006, 18:39
Well, you should do more damage and give ammo to your teammates, and read the post Ging made at least 7 times.
Then you will get the full load of information.

Flare
14th June 2006, 19:00
i got 383 weighting with an afk hidden :D

GIGAR
14th June 2006, 19:09
Yes, but for some reason it's not working that way.
Well, that suck.
You don't get 75 weight for doing 75 damage to the Hidden - :S

Phoenix_Bomb
14th June 2006, 19:14
You're supposed to. Granted, you can lose those points before the round ends, but I was under the impression you're supposed to...

-Edit-

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You get a point of weighting for each point of damage you do, there's a bonus of 50 for killing 617 but you lose 20 if you die.

Team wounding removes weighting to the level of damage done.

Supplying ammunition gives you a bonus of 20

A hit with the 303 gives a bonus of 25 (the DoT doesn't count towards your weighting)

At the point where a hidden is selected it starts a 'lottery' - it sums the total weighting value and assigns each player a space within the range of 0 to totalweight, the size of which depends on their weighting.

Finally, it selects a random number between 0 and totalweight, searches the players and assigns whichever player 'has' that number to be hidden.

So, yes, you should be.

GIGAR
14th June 2006, 19:19
If we oversee the fact that I didn't understood your post, then;
I DID NOT shoot at my team mates, and I DID NOT die. wtf?!

Phoenix_Bomb
14th June 2006, 19:25
A wizard did it.

Iduno, Ging, where are you? =P

Ging
14th June 2006, 19:59
It works - I don't fully understand what the issue is I'm meant to be commenting on...

Phoenix_Bomb
14th June 2006, 20:03
In a nutshell, he's claiming that, after doing 75 points of damage to the Hidden, and doing no damage to other IRIS members and not dying, that he didn't have 75 weighted points.

mullen1200
14th June 2006, 20:41
well did this happen once, or does he KNOW it happened more then once.

Ging
14th June 2006, 21:26
The weighting value shown in the console is not completely accurate - it's a networked variable so it may not have updated by the time it was shown - though that's somewhat unlikely... Without a screenshot of it, I struggle to believe it.

Shadowe
15th June 2006, 00:14
Methinsk whoever has the highest weighting should get to be hidden, and then they are disqualified for 2 rounds >P

Puzzlemaker
17th June 2006, 04:05
QUESTION:

Can you lower the bonus for killing the hidden from 50 to 30?

And raise the bonus the 303 gives from 25 to 30, considering it does 20 damage total (Last time I checked), you only get 5 extra points. Either that, or can you make it so if someone kills the hidden while being effected by the 303 the owner of the 303 gets a weighting bonus (Of maybe 10 or so?)

EDIT:

Methinsk whoever has the highest weighting should get to be hidden, and then they are disqualified for 2 rounds >P

I believe that should be another hidden selection method.

Demented
17th June 2006, 04:15
It does more like 17-18 damage, I thought. So that's a bonus of at least 7. Plus, the other weapons are limited to 150 weighting if they take the Hidden from 100 to 0. Not the F303! Oh no, 6 shots alone, the bare minimum to kill the Hidden, nets you 175 weighting. Snazzy.

Plus, you get the weighting for the shot regardless of how much damage it does.

If you fill the Hidden with four shots and the moment after the final hit the Hidden gets blasted by a shotty, you'll get the 100 weighting, while the shotty probably gets 110-130. Curiously, if the shotty hit happened much later, you'd have 100 weighting still, but the shotty would only get 70 weighting for the kill. =O


...As for an alternate weighting method, I the current Weighted-Random, Unweighted-Absolute, and Unweighted-Random methods are quite fine and different enough from eachother not to confuse. I'm not to averse to seeing it played with in a suggestion thread, though.

Ging
17th June 2006, 04:36
303 does 15 damage over 10 seconds, plus 3 from the initial hit, so you're getting a bonus of 7 weighting for each hit.

The system only gets really confusing and hard to figure out when the hidden feeds, damned ungrateful sod that he is, in which case it's possible for the same person to easily to reach 303 levels of weighting with a 'normal' weapon.

95 + (7 * 25) = 270 (95 accounting for health prior to him escaping and feeding on all 7 of your dead team mates)

Which means the very maximum weighting you can get with a 'standard' weapon, making the kill and surviving the round is 324. A 303 on an unfed hidden will gain you (without a killing bonus) 150 weighting.

Compared with a 303 : (95 + (7 * 25) / 18) * 25 = 375 and that's without the kill bonus of 50 - if you killed him, you'd be looking at 425.

Of course, these numbers might happen once in like, a million games - but it is, interestingly, all doable with a single magazine of 303 ammo... (well, it'd take 15.22 hits to get the numbers exact, but it's close enough)

Note - my math may be well off base, it's late, I'm tired and my brain is fried from writing a dissertation for most of the day.

Isolation
17th June 2006, 04:56
The lesson to be learned: Try and frag that invisible freak as much as possible, so you don't have to work out the weighting math :rolleyes: .

Puzzlemaker
17th June 2006, 05:42
Alright, but the only thing is...

It's really, really hard to hit with the FN303.

Mostly because of the delay in your firing... it takes awhile to get to where you aim, a noticible diffrence. Plus it falls over time, so you have to aim upwards, meaning that the only time you can really hit the hidden easily is when hes right near you. AND since the FN303 doesn't fire very quickly AND it doesn't have much stopping power, it tends be very bad if the hidden gets next to you.

All in all, its a very hard weapon to use effectively... However, there is one thing that would make it much better...

Just increase the speed the projectile goes at. Please.

Ging
17th June 2006, 05:45
Which is why you get an instant bonus of 25 weighting when you hit with the 303...

It's ok as is for now.

starstriker1
17th June 2006, 06:23
One hit is all you freaking need. NO hidden can fight with the current blur effect on with anything more than blind slashing. You cripple them for a considerable amount of time with just one hit.

SkaveRat
17th June 2006, 06:47
One hit is all you freaking need. NO hidden can fight with the current blur effect on with anything more than blind slashing. You cripple them for a considerable amount of time with just one hit.
yea, the new efect is t3h uber-no1337-effect.

Last time I was hit by a 303 I pounced more or less aimless acress the map, and noticed that I was exactly in front of an IRIS, when the blurr ended. Lucky me, taht he didn't noticed me :D

Felf
17th June 2006, 08:58
HOW NOT???

I've never landed a hit with the 303 i don't think, although I don't actually use it that much... I think it should definately be that the player with the most weighting is instantly hidden, rather than just having the most chance. I prefer the certainty - otherwise i'd just play random hidden selection.

Isolation
17th June 2006, 09:33
First day of B4, all I used was 303. Getting hits is not impossible. In fact, it felt so powerful (for me) I went back to the P90 just to be "fair" to people. I just wish the adrenaline would go back to the B3 blur, thus making it useful for me again.

Puzzlemaker
17th June 2006, 21:23
I have used the 303 since it came out and nothing else, because I felt like it, and I can say that its underpowered. Either that or I suck, but I suspect the former. It IS overpowered when you actually HIT the hidden, more often then not he runs away (Unless your alone, in which case your screwed. Again, no stopping power.)

It's effects are great, but its really hard to hit the hidden with it. I cannot say how many times the hidden has been in my laser-sight, and I fire, only to find by the time the projectile has reached him he has pounced away.

In a game that requires fast reflexes, the FN303 seems to bog it down, and oftentimes the only way to hit the hidden at any range is to just spray down the hallway and hope one hits.

So, please increase the projectile speed... it just seems very slow, like the crossbow, but is effected by 100% gravity unlike the crossbow.

Pwetty Pwease?

Veon
17th June 2006, 21:25
I have used the 303 since it came out and nothing else, because I felt like it, and I can say that its underpowered. Either that or I suck, but I suspect the former. It IS overpowered when you actually HIT the hidden, more often then not he runs away (Unless your alone, in which case your screwed. Again, no stopping power.)

It's effects are great, but its really hard to hit the hidden with it. I cannot say how many times the hidden has been in my laser-sight, and I fire, only to find by the time the projectile has reached him he has pounced away.

In a game that requires fast reflexes, the FN303 seems to bog it down, and oftentimes the only way to hit the hidden at any range is to just spray down the hallway and hope one hits.

So, please increase the projectile speed... it just seems very slow, like the crossbow, but is effected by 100% gravity unlike the crossbow.

Pwetty Pwease?

Adrenalin + Backwards running

does magic.

Puzzlemaker
17th June 2006, 22:59
Adrenalin + Backwards running

does magic.

And you can't see the hidden. Joy!

Fzm
18th June 2006, 18:05
i once used adrenaline... and never did it again.

i dont know what its for..

you cant see the hidden in anyway, so the speed bonus is more than useless or did i miss something?

Cranky
18th June 2006, 18:22
i once used adrenaline... and never did it again.

i dont know what its for..

you cant see the hidden in anyway, so the speed bonus is more than useless or did i miss something?

Actually you can run to a specific spot pretty fast. Otherwise yes, the adrenalin shot sucks. But it is possible to spot hidden if your lucky and the hidden is bad.

-SM-SUCKER
20th June 2006, 09:32
Ging wanted screenshots of weird weightening, so here they are. Both show my weight after killing the hidden, without hitting anyone else. But Gings math does not match with those results. :p

The Laughing Man
20th June 2006, 11:01
yeah the new blur with adriniline makes it the paralyzer, instead of the speeder.

in b3, it was deceint enough to use with with 303. But now, having the same negitive blur effect as the 303 and nade, it makes it so you cant even see where your going and just got to hope you went down the door with out someone getting in your way.

But now, with how powerful the blur effect is, though it does screw up some times, Its kinda pointless to cripple yourself down to what you were trying to do.

Ging
20th June 2006, 11:53
Ging wanted screenshots of weird weightening, so here they are. Both show my weight after killing the hidden, without hitting anyone else. But Gings math does not match with those results. :p

Ahh, that number? wouldn't trust it much - chances are it's not been update from the server at the point the damage get's listed.

Puzzlemaker
21st June 2006, 15:50
Ahh, that number? wouldn't trust it much - chances are it's not been update from the server at the point the damage get's listed.


Can you get rid of it then?

Ging
21st June 2006, 17:06
I could.

SynxUK
21st June 2006, 22:11
Adrenalin + Backwards running

does magic.
And you can't see the hidden. Joy!

Hah hah! That was excellent. :D

And why should Ging change it? Just join servers labelled classic or weighting off. Simple.


I have used the 303 since it came out and nothing else, because I felt like it, and I can say that its underpowered. Either that or I suck, but I suspect the former. It IS overpowered when you actually HIT the hidden, more often then not he runs away (Unless your alone, in which case your screwed. Again, no stopping power.)

It's effects are great, but its really hard to hit the hidden with it. I cannot say how many times the hidden has been in my laser-sight, and I fire, only to find by the time the projectile has reached him he has pounced away.

In a game that requires fast reflexes, the FN303 seems to bog it down, and oftentimes the only way to hit the hidden at any range is to just spray down the hallway and hope one hits.

So, please increase the projectile speed... it just seems very slow, like the crossbow, but is effected by 100% gravity unlike the crossbow.

Pwetty Pwease?

Since when was there ever a crossbow? But I do think projectile speed should be increased.

Ging
21st June 2006, 22:23
Since when was there ever a crossbow? But I do think projectile speed should be increased.

He's talking about the HL2 crossbow - he's wrong about it not being effected by gravity, but we'll let him off that one... Well, no, we won't... He's just wrong...

Puzzlemaker
22nd June 2006, 19:25
He's talking about the HL2 crossbow - he's wrong about it not being effected by gravity, but we'll let him off that one... Well, no, we won't... He's just wrong...

No, I'm not. Looking through the HL2 code I noticed the crossbow bolt isn't effected by gravity as much as normal. I think the number is 20%?

You can notice this if you make the crossbow bounce off a wall. Aim from a long distance and you will notice the crossbow bolt doesn't fall down that much; but once it hits a wall, its gravity is set to 100% and it begins falling much more rapidly.

Demented
22nd June 2006, 20:11
No, I'm not. Looking through the HL2 code I noticed the crossbow bolt isn't effected by gravity as much as normal. I think the number is 20%?

Actually, and this amused me, Ging mentioned it once before. I think the figure was around 5%. o.o

Ging
22nd June 2006, 20:53
I think it's 0.5 (or 50% for the numerically impaired)... It's not like I actually looked in the code or anything is it?

*gasp* It's... It's the same value as used for the 303! *shock, horror*

Could that be because they share code? Nooo, surely not...

project_demon
22nd June 2006, 22:03
Ging do you play the game lol? Everytime i come here i see you posting stuff on the forums, it's like ur on 24/7 or something lol.

is your name Ging in-game?

Ging
22nd June 2006, 22:39
Rarely... That's my job...

Yes, sometimes.

Cyborg
22nd June 2006, 22:49
you use Ging in game eh? what do you say when people are like, "You arent Ging! I know Ging, and you arent Ging, you Ging-imposter!"

Ging
23rd June 2006, 00:20
They don't... or I pretend to be a newb, change my name and note their steam id...

hutch
23rd June 2006, 00:24
They don't... or I pretend to be a newb, change my name and note their steam id...
Oh hell, that means my steam ID is in there....at least if you do that to people who say get your own name man, that ones earned some respect.....

/Edit\
Wow, that looks like brown nosing.....Sorry

Ging
23rd June 2006, 00:46
You're ok, I probably haven't played with you :D

Cyborg
23rd June 2006, 01:05
yeah... i hang around in the american circle of servers.... im sure ive never played with you either.

Ging
23rd June 2006, 01:23
You may sometimes catch me on the miasma if you're ever on there... Though I suffer from a horrendous ping so tend to avoid it :D

DLK14790
11th July 2006, 02:49
Could anyone explain this Weighting System to me with an example? My English understanding is not perfect, I have trouble getting the whole deal. Thanks in advance.

starstriker1
11th July 2006, 05:01
For every point of damage that you do, you get a greater chance of being the hidden the next round if he dies. If you damage teammates, you'll lose points. The f303 weapon gives you a greater chance of being hidden than other weapons if you make the hit.

Felf
17th July 2006, 20:27
I hate to be a bore (and perhaps this should be a suggestion, but this topic is here, so suck it up), but shouldn't the player with the highest weighting *always* become hidden, rather than having the greatest chance? This seems more fair to me, as they're the ones who've done the most. If I wanted it to be random, I'd play on a random server. Weighted means I want a fair system, rather than the potential for kill stealing (and so hidden stealing).

Just my two cents. Or two pence, being english.

Fluffy
21st July 2006, 02:55
I hate to be a bore (and perhaps this should be a suggestion, but this topic is here, so suck it up), but shouldn't the player with the highest weighting *always* become hidden, rather than having the greatest chance? This seems more fair to me, as they're the ones who've done the most. If I wanted it to be random, I'd play on a random server. Weighted means I want a fair system, rather than the potential for kill stealing (and so hidden stealing).

Just my two cents. Or two pence, being english.


The weighted system is fair. The problem with choosing the player with the highest weight means that if two players have the same value for weight it would still have to revert to picking one of the two at random. dont forget the hidden gets a weighted value also. Think of the weighted system as a rigged lottery. if you buy 20,000,000 lottery tickets, you're pretty much sure to win out over the other 4,000,000 tickets because its a 4:1 chance. Same concept with weighted selection. a 4:1 chance of becoming hidden may not necessarily be good for you, but needed for the whole server because that means the other players did something to help you out that should be noted. they deserve some recognition and a chance at hidden. ;)

Mart Ini
17th August 2006, 13:37
i dont get it:

At the point where a hidden is selected it starts a 'lottery' - it sums the total weighting value and assigns each player a space within the range of 0 to totalweight, the size of which depends on their weighting.

Finally, it selects a random number between 0 and totalweight, searches the players and assigns whichever player 'has' that number to be hidden.


1)It sums up the total weighting value. This is all the weighting points summed up together?

2)Then it signs up the space. So if the total weighing is 300, the person with 130 points so he gets a the space 130 right?

3)Then it selects a random number between o and 300. And the person who has that number becomes the hidden.
So if there are 3 persons with a total weight of 300. Number one has 50 points, number two 100 and three 299 it still has to be luck to be the hidden right?

another thing i want to know is:
you get 50 points for killing the hidden. If you kill it will you get the damage points also?

Ging
17th August 2006, 14:08
1)It sums up the total weighting value. This is all the weighting points summed up together?
That'd be what 'sums up' means, yes.


2)Then it signs up the space. So if the total weighing is 300, the person with 130 points so he gets a the space 130 right?
Assuming he was the first player assigned, he'd get from 0 to 129, hence 'the size of which depends on their weighting.'


3)Then it selects a random number between o and 300. And the person who has that number becomes the hidden.
So if there are 3 persons with a total weight of 300. Number one has 50 points, number two 100 and three 299 it still has to be luck to be the hidden right?
No, see above - each player has a 1 / 3 chance (100 / 300) of getting selected.


you get 50 points for killing the hidden. If you kill it will you get the damage points also?

yes, damage points are assigned as soon as the damage is done.

Korittke
17th August 2006, 14:30
The weighted system is fair. The problem with choosing the player with the highest weight means that if two players have the same value for weight it would still have to revert to picking one of the two at random. dont forget the hidden gets a weighted value also. Think of the weighted system as a rigged lottery. if you buy 20,000,000 lottery tickets, you're pretty much sure to win out over the other 4,000,000 tickets because its a 4:1 chance. Same concept with weighted selection. a 4:1 chance of becoming hidden may not necessarily be good for you, but needed for the whole server because that means the other players did something to help you out that should be noted. they deserve some recognition and a chance at hidden. ;)
But the point is that whoever did most, and not just something, should be Hidden. Sometimes it's just like that: You have a contest and the winner gets all. Even if the difference to the 2nd is minor, he was still better.
I think it was fairer if killing wouldn't add 50 points. Only damage should count.

Mart Ini
17th August 2006, 14:38
So if the're 300 weighting points:

'No, see above - each player has a 1 / 3 chance (100 / 300) of getting selected'.

So its not fair if all the 3 players get the same amount of 'chance' when 1 player has 130 weighting points.

Korittke
17th August 2006, 16:16
Player 1: 130 points
Player 2: 70 points
Player 3: 100 points

Total Weight: 300

Random number between 0 and 300 will be chosen

Hidden is:

Range 1: 0-130 (player 1)
Range 2: 130-200 (player 2, the difference is 70 = his weighting)
Range 3: 200-300 (player 3, the difference = 100 = weighting)

So player 1 has 13/30 chance, player 2 has 7/30 chance and player 3 has 1/3 chance to become Hidden next round.

Pattyrick
21st August 2006, 11:59
what servers do you play on Ging? do you play on the aussie ones? cose there is someone who logs on as ging on the aussie servers i presumed you werent an aussie and it wasnt you though?>?? is it??

Ging
21st August 2006, 13:51
I don't play on any servers at the moment... But no, I don't play on aussie servers - Ging slipped through as the default name in the B4a installer.

Night Raider
21st August 2006, 17:07
Ging is slowly becoming the new Mingebag.

No insult intended :p

crans
20th November 2006, 03:32
So Ging, what would be your screen name if you played again, because it can't be Ging now can it? Nobody would believe it's you because of the default name. Hmmmm....

Demented
20th November 2006, 03:46
That is all part of Ging's evil plan. He can be Ging and, unlike every other mod developer in existence, nobody will bug him for it. Much.

Assuming he'd play at all.

Ging
20th November 2006, 06:44
The worst I'd get would be overzealous types telling me to change my name and be more respectful! :D

Kira Yamato
20th November 2006, 07:01
The worst I'd get would be overzealous types telling me to change my name and be more respectful! :D

I don't see why, this is after all thanks to all your hard work... More mod makers should do it...

Cheesey
1st December 2006, 10:13
Sorry for warming up this thread again. I searched th forum for this question, but I couldn't find a discussion about that, so I'll ask here. (I might have read over it, so sorry if this question has been answered earlier)

Why gets the person who killen 617 weightingpoints +50? :confused:

Yeah, he just did the last damage, but that's not a great effort. It should be same weighted than others who hit 617!

Often happens that I hit 617 3 times (FN2000), damage: about 72, then smb. else kills him and gets 78 weighting points.... even it was a luckshot... so most of the time he becomes 617 and I just think that's not that fair...:(

Even if 617 got hurt by a tilting crate or somethin (303) and he has 10HP, the killer will get 60 weighting points!!!

So I'm fine with "the killer gets a bonus", but in my oppinion 50wp are just far too much. What about 20wp or something like that?

Anthon
1st December 2006, 10:20
Already been discussed...the kill bonus will be much lower in B5.

Cheesey
1st December 2006, 10:27
Thank you, couldn't find the thread....:(

Mart Ini
7th December 2006, 13:16
Already been discussed...the kill bonus will be much lower in B5.

Nice:)

Cheesey
7th December 2006, 13:46
And what about the -20wp when you get killed/die (cause of 617, a TK or your stupidity)?

Mart Ini
9th January 2007, 16:04
I got something I think that needs to be changed with the weighting system.
I think the person whith the highest amount of points should be hidden, period. No more 'lottery' system wich can appoint anyone to be hidden.

Yes i know that the person with the highest score has the most chance to become hidden. But, it happens more than often that i have the highest score and because of that the most chance. But it happens too much that someone else with a lower score gets to be hidden.

I thought the weighting system was about to let the game be more fair and not let the person who killed the hidden become hidden. With that idea in mind i find the 'lottery' system not fair.

Ideas/comments?

-SM-SUCKER
9th January 2007, 16:11
I thought the weighting system was about to let the game be more fair and not let the person who killed the hidden become hidden. With that idea in mind i find the 'lottery' system not fair.
Weighting is fair. It wouldn't be fair not to give someone who helped in hunting the Hidden. If you get 51 % and some other guy 49% it's just fair to give him a chance to become Hidden. Only thing which ain't fair is the high killing bonus, but this will be solved in B5

MiasmicAnomie
9th January 2007, 16:34
I think the person whith the highest amount of points should be hidden, period. No more 'lottery' system wich can appoint anyone to be hidden.

That would undermine the entire reason weighting was added. If that's the sort of game you want to play, just play on classic servers. It's not the exact same selection method as what you want, but the overall environment is going to be exactly the same.

Rymdkejsaren
8th February 2007, 20:29
Here's a suggestion: How about not reseting weighting scores after a Hidden is picked, but just substracting something like 100-150 points from his weighting score (not going below 0)?

That way, people who keep hitting the hidden or helping out with ammo will get to play 617 sooner or later, even if they never got the kill. It will also avoid the whole "omg I killed 617 three times but didn't get to play him" thing.

Felf
8th February 2007, 20:52
Hmmm, why didn't I think of that? I quite like the idea.

Paegus
8th February 2007, 21:38
or just have it build up until you become hidden then reset it: Modified Weighting System (http://forum.hidden-source.com/showthread.php?t=7693#post108868)

Phaedrus
8th February 2007, 21:53
or just have it build up until you become hidden then reset it: Modified Weighting System (http://forum.hidden-source.com/showthread.php?t=7693#post108868)

Stirring the pot, eh Paegus? This thread is one of the main reasons I made MWS.

Rymdkejsaren
13th February 2007, 02:52
Oh, I have some more weighting ideas :D
How about penalizing shooting sound alarms? Like -10 or something. It's really annoying and it would stop a lot of random griefing.

Also, I was thinking the HUD should display your chance of getting picked as Hidden next round, in a percentage, updating it as you you go. This would be a good incentive for newbs to not td, shoot mines etc, and also it could provide useful information (like knowing if you hit 617 or your teamate).

If you think that kind of information shouldn't be shared during the round, then you could get a summary of your weighting score at the end of the round. It would show how many points you have, and how you got them, e.g.


Your weighting score is 32, giving you a 7% chance of becoming the Hidden.

You gained 14 points for damaging 617 with P90.
You gained 20 points for damaging 617 with FiveSeven.
You gained 25 points for resupplying a teammate.
You lost 10 points for destroying a sonic alarm.
You lost 17 points for hitting [DTE]Rymdkejsaren

Ion67
13th February 2007, 04:52
Shooting sonic alarms shouldn't lower your score, for the simple fact that half of the sonic alarms are placed in the most idiodic places, that shooting them should be a public service.

Daedalus
13th February 2007, 13:42
Like -10 or something. It's really annoying and it would stop a lot of random griefing.

Shooting sonic alarms is the least of your worries. The reason they get shot is because they get placed as if the hidden couldn't pass through them.

They aren't tripmines or laser fences, people. (Though it would be funny if they were...)

Rymdkejsaren
13th February 2007, 14:50
Shooting sonic alarms is the least of your worries. The reason they get shot is because they get placed as if the hidden couldn't pass through them.


Not sure I see the relevance of that to this discussion. :confused:


Shooting sonic alarms shouldn't lower your score, for the simple fact that half of the sonic alarms are placed in the most idiodic places, that shooting them should be a public service.

Yes, people do place them in stupid places, that's why I suggested a fairly low number. However, I'd rather have some stupidly placed sonic alarms than some idiot constantly shooting all my alarms whenever I set them up (in a clearly non-stupid fashion :I ).

There seems to be one of those idiots on every server, so it just gets to the point where I don't bother using them.

Anyway, the whole percentage/summary thing was really the more important bit of my suggestion. What do you think about that?

Daedalus
13th February 2007, 15:33
Not sure I see the relevance of that to this discussion. :confused:

Just sayin people keep placing them in places where IRIS frequently travel, making them blare constantly. Then they shoot them cause they get on your nerves and you can't hear what's going on.

Paegus
13th February 2007, 23:07
they also have a habit of placing them where they point at or through models and transparent brushes which the laser can't quite digest... so off it goes.


the printout for the most part is already there in the form of the damage table. the only things lacking are kill, death, ammo-doling and an unambiguous 303 chart. it would be nice to expand the damage table to include per-weapon info and the like but it's not a make or break so back burner if at all really...

Knigh7s
14th February 2007, 01:56
they also have a habit of placing them where they point at or through models and transparent brushes which the laser can't quite digest... so off it goes.

That and those annoying players that use them to make steps to get to a place IRIS isnt supposed to be. Some rounds I've seen the player do it for the entirety of a round when they should be hunting the Hidden. It annoys the hell outa me. So shooting the Alarms shouldnt be a penalty.

Rymdkejsaren
15th February 2007, 14:46
About the annoying tripmines, I maintain my position that I'd rather have them placed in stupid positions than having someone destroy all of mine for the sake of griefing. Since the radar indicates triggered tripmines, you can easily distinguish your own, and ignore others. In my opinion, it's hard to place tripmines so they don't do any good at all, and the fact that they are in IRIS's commonly travelled routes most likely means they are in 617 commonly traveled routes too.

More importantly, I know the weighting info is available via the console, but I want it forced on people. This is for the sake of shoving the info in the face of noobs. If they see their chances to become hidden decrease after wantonly firing at friendlies and 617 alike, they will most likely adjust their behaviour accordingly. Most people want to play the hidden, after all.

Daedalus
15th February 2007, 16:16
In my opinion, it's hard to place tripmines so they don't do any good at all, and the fact that they are in IRIS's commonly travelled routes most likely means they are in 617 commonly traveled routes too.

Are you sure? I always avoid places where I could bump into IRIS (so-called chokepoints that can be blocked by an alarm) and pounce my way around the map, easily avoiding alarms.

If any, sometimes the alarms help you. Throw stuff at them and the IRIS just have to look in that direction... :D

Rymdkejsaren
15th February 2007, 16:44
Well I think as you can't see the sonic alarm beams as 617 anymore, the alarms can be useful.


Are you sure? I always avoid places where I could bump into IRIS

It is my opinion that as 617, you have to go where IRIS goes, or you won't be able to kill them ;)

Sure there are rambos out on their own, but most games will have a group sticking together in the places that are easier to defend.

MadJuggler
9th March 2007, 01:41
I've noticed a slight obstacle with the weighting system concerning the 303 less than lethal weapon. It does not do a whole lot of damage and the weighting system is based largely on damage done to the hidden.

The modified weighting system is slightly better but it would still take a while to gain enough points since the 303 does so little damage. Although, you would probably be a support class if you have the 303 in the first place, so the points from restocking someone might compensate.

The incentive to use it, I think, is largely reduced. If you are in a group then you do not have that much time to shoot the hidden and then take out your pistol. If the hidden is hit then he/she might make a mistake, due to the effects of the 303, and your teammates who already have lethal weapons out might spot it and take the kill. And, on the other hand, going rogue is not that wise unless you are just that good; which, in that case, means you really should just use a lethal gun to gain more points.

Paegus
9th March 2007, 01:51
you get a lump 20 weight points for each hit. if the DoT would give points properly... oh well.

Ging
9th March 2007, 08:14
If the DoT were to give points you wouldn't get the lump bonus but you'd earn less overall.

Phaedrus
9th March 2007, 08:16
MWS can add points for DoT and change the hit bonus. :p

Zabiela
9th March 2007, 09:13
Sorry, but does Dot mean damage over time? Im doubting myself, both ways.

Phaedrus
9th March 2007, 09:16
Yes, DoT = Damage over time.

Ging
9th March 2007, 13:21
MWS can add points for DoT and change the hit bonus. :p

good - shame about the rest of it.

Phaedrus
9th March 2007, 15:51
good - shame about the rest of it.

Touché.

Cheesey
15th March 2007, 12:22
I also like the idea of the enhanced weighting-points list in the console, but no negative-points for destroying sonics (if ever, then you should get plus-points :D)

Rambo_6
24th March 2007, 06:07
What a stupid feature.

<Beatlemania>
9th May 2007, 22:31
I really don't like when servers mess with weighting, like bonus points for having the last shot. If i go to a server for weighting, then I want WEIGHTING.