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View Full Version : B3 tweaks to hidden



Million Knives
28th April 2006, 19:23
Were there tweaks to the hidden's invisble skin code? He's suddenly harder to see for me.... and in B2 it was still not easy.

Fox
28th April 2006, 19:25
I dunno dude. I can't see him at all now. Anyone else having problems seeing him? I'm about to replace B2 back and go try out the tutorial to see how hard it is to see him.

Ging, did you guys make him harder to see?

Million Knives
28th April 2006, 19:27
I just took up a B2 sever again and it's ten times easier. Maybe it has to do with all the weird lighting in hdn_origin... that's the only new map I've played on B3 so far.

Not to mention I'm suddenly getting ungodly level load times. Used to take me two minutes, now it's taking at least fifteen!

Demented
28th April 2006, 19:30
The lighting in Origin is indeed darker, so the hidden is harder to see in that map. No explanation for Foxy's problem, though.

Million Knives
28th April 2006, 19:51
Thanks demented, I went to highrise and I could see him as normal. :)

EmeralDragon
28th April 2006, 23:43
The lighting in Origin is indeed darker, so the hidden is harder to see in that map. No explanation for Foxy's problem, though.



Yep, its nearly impossible to see him in certain area's in Origin. It's a great level, but alittle too dark IMHO.

starstriker1
28th April 2006, 23:59
It's a hidden playground, and easily the most atmospheric of the maps. Make sure to take light amplification goggles or a flashlight. On that map, I prefer the LAG just because the darkness if EVERYWHERE, not just a few corners.

As far as I know, the hidden shader hasn't been changed at all on the better video cards. If I remember correctly, though, they found a better way of going about using the lower DX levels.

Gryphon
29th April 2006, 00:08
To tell you. I can see him like I did in b2.

Mybe a bug? Mybe the brightness.

M_C
29th April 2006, 00:33
He was harder to see in origin and discovery for me. *shrug*

I was running 2 6600GT's in SLI mode but one of the cards fried and I just exchanged both 6600's for 1 7900GT and I haven't had time to join a server to check yet.

Termin-X-man
29th April 2006, 01:23
Everything has been almost perfect for me so far, no complaints here.

Blueflame
29th April 2006, 07:40
i started a server, me and a bot, in stalkyard.

i could not see the hidden.

i was able to hear him, and occasionally barely see him.

he was at least 10X harder to see.
and when he stopped moving, i swear he was completely invisible.


I'll have to post a screenshot or something...
but its much harder to see for me.


its not just Origin(sp?).
its all the time, for me.

EDIT: I'm really surprised it took this long for someone to post about this.
i thought it would have been the first comment on here, that the hidden was 10X harder to see than normal.

Deman
29th April 2006, 08:06
Yes i agree it is a bit harder to see but u will get used to it and the hidden now has more chance cause in b2. If u sit still in a corner there was always a guy who directly spots u while sitting still. now u have more chance.

Blueflame
29th April 2006, 08:19
so.. in reference to people who own servers as the hidden.

its now harder to be seen as the hidden.
pipe bombs disorient iris.
hidden has longer stamina

well... lets just say i'm glad that the iris have some new weapons,
and the PS-0 servers will be a plus.

khu
29th April 2006, 09:26
EDIT: I'm really surprised it took this long for someone to post about this.
i thought it would have been the first comment on here, that the hidden was 10X harder to see than normal.
So maybe that tells your your experience is not universal?

PureD
29th April 2006, 18:26
okay I'll try to explain. If you play on dx 9 hidden has that "watery" effect and its easy to see him, but if you play on dx 8 it doesn't have "watery" effect and almost completely invisible (yes, with shader detail on high). In version B2 hidden was absolutely the same on dx 8 with shader detail on high and on dx 9, but now he is invisible on dx 8 and visible on dx 9. (if you want I can provide screenshots or small movies )

Boxy
29th April 2006, 18:36
The Hidden shader hasnt changed, its not possible for him to disappear in DX8, UNLESS you have a semi old card (such as early GF4) that falls back to PS1.1. This essentially forces you to have the same Hidden as DX6 and DX7 users get, an alpha-ed hidden model that is near as dammit invisible.

The team made the decision to put fallbacks in for DX6 and DX7 but we are NOT actively supporting it. In this case you have some seriously old hardware, time for an upgrade. Sorry...

PureD
29th April 2006, 18:46
The Hidden shader hasnt changed, its not possible for him to disappear in DX8, UNLESS you have a semi old card (such as early GF4) that falls back to PS1.1. This essentially forces you to have the same Hidden as DX6 and DX7 users get, an alpha-ed hidden model that is near as dammit invisible.

The team made the decision to put fallbacks in for DX6 and DX7 but we are NOT actively supporting it. In this case you have some seriously old hardware, time for an upgrade. Sorry...
So WHY he was visible in B2 but not visible in B3 if nothing changed.... And my card CAN handle dx 9 but my pc can't i guess :D

I'll spend some time and give you some screenshots from B2 and B3 with DX 8 and 9

M_C
29th April 2006, 19:05
The Hidden shader hasnt changed...
Why is it harder to see it, in b3, with my 7900gt than it was, in b2a, with my 6600gt? They're both dx9 cards. Something has changed.

Night Raider
29th April 2006, 19:27
I find that the Hidden is still easy to picck out, if you look hard enough. It must be one of those issues from moving from an old relase to a new one.

Issues like this happened in the transition from B1a to B2a. People thought that the IRIS moved slower, when in fact they moved at the same speed!

Fox
29th April 2006, 19:29
i started a server, me and a bot, in stalkyard.

i could not see the hidden.

i was able to hear him, and occasionally barely see him.

he was at least 10X harder to see.
and when he stopped moving, i swear he was completely invisible.


I'll have to post a screenshot or something...
but its much harder to see for me.


its not just Origin(sp?).
its all the time, for me.

EDIT: I'm really surprised it took this long for someone to post about this.
i thought it would have been the first comment on here, that the hidden was 10X harder to see than normal.

Truth. This is exactly, exactly what I did. I couldn't even find the bot, who was standing right next to me.

It's been said that nothing has been changed. I'm running an X700, which, last I checked is DX9 compatible, and something has definately changed.

I was initially blaming it on my codec changes in FFDShow when I was toying with Oblivion. Looks like that's not the case.

--Fox

Boxy
29th April 2006, 19:40
Why is it harder to see it, in b3, with my 7900gt than it was, in b2a, with my 6600gt? They're both dx9 cards. Something has changed.

I dont know, he isnt harder to see for me. I mean hell, what do i know, Im only a dev and wrote the damn VMT and made the VTF's for him, I dont know feck all clearly!

There have been no changes, I see no changes from B2 to B3 on my comp, hes exactly as he was before, hes been the same since B1. If you genuinely think hes changed you have altered tour system somehow, but I have no idea what.

M_C
29th April 2006, 19:48
I dont know, he isnt harder to see for me. I mean hell, what do i know, Im only a dev and wrote the damn VMT and made the VTF's for him, I dont know feck all clearly!

There have been no changes, I see no changes from B2 to B3 on my comp, hes exactly as he was before, hes been the same since B1. If you genuinely think hes changed you have altered tour system somehow, but I have no idea what.
I don't know why either but I'll spend a little quality time with a bot and see if I might be wrong. I'm not the only one. *shrug*

Cyborg
29th April 2006, 20:04
i havent noticed any differences after i got my new card (x1300 pci-e)

still fairly easy to see for me, and with the shotgun you dont gotta be exactly precise! :p

M_C
29th April 2006, 20:55
I don't know if this is what other people experience but it seems like 617 is less "watery" and more invisible. That's the best I can describe it. I've had to turn on wireframe just to find the bot more than once. I never had to do that before. I've tried AA and vert sync nothing seems to help. *shrug*

Blueflame
29th April 2006, 20:59
http://www.hidden-source.com/media/ingame/IRIS_Members_12.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v390/blueflame2/hdn_derelict0000.jpg

the top one was from b2 on the website. this is what my hidden looked like in b2

the bottom was me facing the hidden in a lan game on my computers.


a bit of a difference.

and yes, he is directly in front of me.

PureD
29th April 2006, 21:02
I dont know, he isnt harder to see for me. I mean hell, what do i know, Im only a dev and wrote the damn VMT and made the VTF's for him, I dont know feck all clearly!

There have been no changes, I see no changes from B2 to B3 on my comp, hes exactly as he was before, hes been the same since B1. If you genuinely think hes changed you have altered tour system somehow, but I have no idea what.
you're playing on Dx 9 or 8? I can see that DX 9 effect doesnt change BUT on DX 8 he is invisible

i havent noticed any differences after i got my new card (x1300 pci-e)

Again DX 9 or 8?

Blueflame
29th April 2006, 21:13
in the launch options, i've changed between -dxlevel 81 and 80

i see no difference though.


or is that not what i should be changing?

PureD
29th April 2006, 21:22
in the launch options, i've changed between -dxlevel 81 and 80

i see no difference though.


or is that not what i should be changing?
okay in B2 you could make hidden's shader with that "watery" effect on Dx 8 or 8.1(doesnt matter i guess) by changing Shader Details to HIGH in video options.

M_C
29th April 2006, 23:56
I'm thinking about rolling back to b2a and taking SS's now.

Boxy
30th April 2006, 00:07
Im thinking Ive gone past caring, you throw suggestions out and all you get back is 'but i cant see him, its changed'. I dont know why you are struggling to see him now and you couldnt before, nothing has changed. I dont know what to tell you, im not a software/hardware expert. Kick a man enough and he gets sick of it. Took me...ooo...three pages. Man thats gonna bruise in the morning.

M_C
30th April 2006, 00:47
Im thinking Ive gone past caring, you throw suggestions out and all you get back is 'but i cant see him, its changed'. I dont know why you are struggling to see him now and you couldnt before, nothing has changed. I dont know what to tell you, im not a software/hardware expert. Kick a man enough and he gets sick of it. Took me...ooo...three pages. Man thats gonna bruise in the morning.
I don't think you understand Boxy, I'm not kicking you, I'm trying to get you to understand that what's changed is b2 - b3. If you say the shaders are the same, fine, but what *isn't* the same? Were maps changed with diff bg's? Maybe compiled differently? I don't know what's changed between 2a and 3 that makes this happen but it is happening to a number of us, it's not in our heads and our computers shouldn't have magically changed settings while switching to b3, AFAIK. All we're trying to do is figure what's changed so we can fix it.

PureD
30th April 2006, 01:44
No one is kicking you, Boxy. We appreciate that you are trying to help us, but "time to upgrade" is not for me as long as I can play other games, you know. There is no way it could be different because of my settings (my settings on B3 and B2 are exactly the same )
For someone who cares :
Take a look at this (http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/7318/hdnhighrisecomparecopy2ic.jpg) Much less distortion on B3 hidden -> harder to see
And THIS (http://rapidshare.de/files/19233452/hiddenscreens.rar.html) is a pack of about 25 screenies from B2 and B3. You can see the difference. Shader Detail on High on B2 and on B3 as well. DX 8.1.
I made this screenies 20 minutes ago or so.

ViciousFlamingo
30th April 2006, 02:16
Well, hm. I've got a p.o.s. GF4 MX 440 with 64mb, and DX 7, and yet I can definitely see the Hidden much more clearly than I ever could before. I'm not complaining for one, but does anybody have an explanation for that? I'm pretty happy to finally be able to wreak some havoc :p

PureD
30th April 2006, 02:26
Well, hm. I've got a p.o.s. GF4 MX 440 with 64mb, and DX 7, and yet I can definitely see the Hidden much more clearly than I ever could before. I'm not complaining for one, but does anybody have an explanation for that? I'm pretty happy to finally be able to wreak some havoc :p
we are talking about DX 8 and watery effect here. All DX 7 and Dx 9 users please do not say "I can see him clearly" and leave this thread if you can't help.... thank you. I should try to run my game in dx 7 though :D

yeah on dx 7 hidden is visible but game crashes if you kill him. :D

Blueflame
30th April 2006, 06:09
okay in B2 you could make hidden's shader with that "watery" effect on Dx 8 or 8.1(doesnt matter i guess) by changing Shader Details to HIGH in video options.

the shader is always set to high.
(i'm not that much of a noob. :P)


i was playing hidden the night before the release with no problems.

Deleted the hidden folder, full install of B3.

no settings have changed, nothing.

i'm going to try playing with some settings and video drivers... see what happens. as long as i'm not the only one with this.

EDIT:
I have an NVidia on one computer, and the other is ATI.
...why would they both have the same problem?

Blueflame
30th April 2006, 09:21
I got it. :D

add this under set launch options
-dxlevel 90

bam! back to normal hidden viewing, on both of my computers.
i hope this solves the problem for everyone else.

(i was going through every number between -dxlevel 70 and 100).


ah... i love this mod. great work.


boxy, i appreciate your efforts to help, and hope you understand we're not trying to kick you or anything, and we're not just shrugging and saying, "he's a dev, what does he know?".

Boxy
30th April 2006, 09:41
Forcing your PC to DX9 will fix the problem if your card is DX9 capabale. In your case with a FX5200 you will have poor perfomrance Id guess, but if it works for you gor for it. People who force their PC to go DX9 with a non DX9 card will either have horrendous performance for no gain or will just crash. Im in discussion with M_C over a possible fix for this, I await his repsonse via PM.

M_C
30th April 2006, 10:56
Forcing your PC to DX9 will fix the problem if your card is DX9 capabale. In your case with a FX5200 you will have poor perfomrance Id guess, but if it works for you gor for it. People who force their PC to go DX9 with a non DX9 card will either have horrendous performance for no gain or will just crash. Im in discussion with M_C over a possible fix for this, I await his repsonse via PM.
That's a negative on the fix. I still need to test some other things I've been working on that might be working better. I played ahile and it seemed liek b2a again but now I still have to disbale them and see if it's hard to see again or if it's something else. It's 4 am here, though, and I'm beat. ;)

=AWOL=Manoe
2nd May 2006, 04:34
I am new to the mod and I thought he was supposed to be invisible when standing still? I see the ripples when he moves and thats it..

woot!

The Laughing Man
2nd May 2006, 05:21
I dont think it was any changes to the hidden..


but there where new dust and such things...

I turned mine to low and can now see the hidden.. a little better. Prehaps it is my graphics card is confused and using a faulty setting..