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Kitn0
8th April 2006, 16:34
Hey all again,

I've been noticing whilst playing Hidden (and amongst other HL2 mods and games) that items such as fences or walls have lines that sorta, move up and down along the edges of it, judging on the angle i look at them or move back / forward's to them. Its hard to explain - its not only fences and walls, various other objects too. Nothing looks firm in a way - always moving / blurred.

Also ive noticed the ground sorta texturises as i move closer to it - so it acquires its full image as i move closer to it and the furhter i move from it the less the quality of its image.

I have anti-aliasing at 2x and filtering mode trilinear - also disabled V Sync.

Is there anyway to cure this or is it the HL2 engine that does it?

Specs:
Operating System: Windows XP Pro - Service Pack 2
Motherboard: Nforce 4 Gigabyte GA-K8NS Ultra SKT 939 6.70 nForce drivers.
Graphics Card: GeForce 6800GS 256MB Ram PCI-Express 16X - 81.98 Drivers.
DirectX Version: DirectX 9.0c
Processor: AMD Athlon 64 Processor 3700+ San Diego Chip - 2.26GHZ
RAM: 1024MB - 2X512 sticks - DDR400 - PC3200 - 2X184Pinn - Unbuffered.
Hard Drive: 80 Gigabyte MAXTOR 6L080M0
Power Supply: Hiper Technology Type R(Blue) - 580 Continuous Wattage.
Networking: Safecom
Internet Speed: 1 Megabyte broadband.
BIOS: Award Modular BIOS v6.00PG

Thanks again!

Ging
8th April 2006, 16:41
It's mipmapping - a technique used to reduce texture quality over distance to improve performance. More info here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mipmap)

Kitn0
8th April 2006, 18:24
Hmm - interesting thanks for that Ging - so as far as i can tell, there's no way to get round it except for turning up the Antisotropic filtering?

This 'mipmapping' does make it hard to play Hidden personally. With the sometimes blurred images and texturising outlines, it does make me think there's a Hidden when actually there isnt, if you get where im coming from. Obviously the game is still greatly playable though.

Anyone else feel the same way?

Gusdor
8th April 2006, 19:12
you'll find its just a case of getting used to the way ur machine renders the scene and the hidden. generally it its the smae for most although a cranked up res really helps

M_C
8th April 2006, 19:15
you'll find its just a case of getting used to the way ur machine renders the scene and the hidden. generally it its the smae for most although a cranked up res really helps
I play @ 1600x1200 and I don't have a big enough problem with it to complain about it. No video games are perfect. *shrug*

khu
8th April 2006, 19:31
This 'mipmapping' does make it hard to play Hidden personally. With the sometimes blurred images and texturising outlines, it does make me think there's a Hidden when actually there isnt, if you get where im coming from. Obviously the game is still greatly playable though.

Anyone else feel the same way?
There's nothing specific we can do with the code anyway. All 3D games for the last decade have used mipmapping in some form or another, it's not Hidden-specific.

Kitn0
8th April 2006, 20:57
There's nothing specific we can do with the code anyway. All 3D games for the last decade have used mipmapping in some form or another, it's not Hidden-specific.

I know its not Hidden specific... Doesnt matter i understand now anyway, it can be cured slightly with a higher resolution and higher antisotropic filter level - i think :)

Ging
8th April 2006, 21:05
Yeah, jacking up the filtering level is one of the best ways to get rid of it.

Kitn0
8th April 2006, 21:06
Yeah, jacking up the filtering level is one of the best ways to get rid of it.

Ging, HELP! I set my Hidden resolution too high, now it wont display the game when i load it up, is there a way to change it outside of the game, like a config file? I looked around but couldnt find one - yes this was a stupid thing to do (Before you say it.) :mad: .

Help appreciated...

Demented
8th April 2006, 21:10
Just jack Filtering up to x16. It hurts your framerate by about 1, so you have no excuse not to do it. A lower Filtering setting will attractively break up texture repetition on large volumes of water, but there aren't any in the H:S maps, and it's such a minor thing that nobody would care anyway.

Chas0r
8th April 2006, 22:00
Just wanted to add, that mipmapping isn't done for performance increase only. If a polygon becomes very small at higher distances, the original texture is too big to render correctly. Due to the texturing algorithm, a minimum change of the view would cause a different look, resulting in more flickering.
Mipmapping trades flickering for some blur, which both are negative effects when trying to spot the hidden.

And now for something useful: Most gfx cards have options to adjust the mipmapping which override the software's settings. Check your graphics-panel when opening advanced display settings.

Kitn0
8th April 2006, 22:15
Ging, HELP! I set my Hidden resolution too high, now it wont display the game when i load it up, is there a way to change it outside of the game, like a config file? I looked around but couldnt find one - yes this was a stupid thing to do (Before you say it.) :mad: .

Help appreciated...

Thanks for the extra info - i stumbled across the option (i think) in my graphics card options earlier before you said aswell! BUT - can i just emphasize my dilema above - otherwise i cant try it out anyway...

I set my Hidden resolution too high, now it wont display the game when i load it up, is there a way to change it outside of the game, like a config file? I looked around but couldnt find one - yes this was a stupid thing to do

M_C
8th April 2006, 22:22
There's also a cvar called mat_mipmaptextures (defaults to 1) that you should be able to flip to 0. ;)

ThunderDan
8th April 2006, 22:57
Thanks for the extra info - i stumbled across the option (i think) in my graphics card options earlier before you said aswell! BUT - can i just emphasize my dilema above - otherwise i cant try it out anyway...

I set my Hidden resolution too high, now it wont display the game when i load it up, is there a way to change it outside of the game, like a config file? I looked around but couldnt find one - yes this was a stupid thing to do

Right click on hidden in steam and tell it to create a shorcut.
Go to the desktop and right click the icon - select properties from this list
It should default to the shortcut tab.
In the Target field add

-width 1024 -height 768
to the end of the line do not delete the current text in the box.

It should look like this when done.


"C:\Program Files\Steam\steam.exe" -applaunch 220 -game "c:\program files\steam\SteamApps\SourceMods\hidden" -width 1024 -height 768

Alternatively you can just add the " -width 1024 -height 768" to launch options in steam.

Either way that should take care of your problem.

Kitn0
9th April 2006, 12:13
Right click on hidden in steam and tell it to create a shorcut.
Go to the desktop and right click the icon - select properties from this list
It should default to the shortcut tab.
In the Target field add

-width 1024 -height 768
to the end of the line do not delete the current text in the box.

It should look like this when done.



Alternatively you can just add the " -width 1024 -height 768" to launch options in steam.

Either way that should take care of your problem.

Thanks a lot dude, its working now. Thanks everyone else for the extra info, this is a most helpful forum. :D