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shephart
1st September 2012, 14:08
hello, i am playing hidden source since 4 years, and it is time to bring out a new release, but before release a new version, we need this :
kick out current mod-team from hidden source project , why ? its simple :
the last version was released in 2007 (wtf ?) and since then, the mod-team claim that they working on beta 5 since 2007 (lol) yet there are NO proof that they working on it nor there are not any media about updates, new models, bug fixing etc... so what does it mean ? yes, the modteam didnīt do a shit nor did not care.
so i have two idead what the community should do :
1. that the current modding team of hidden-source leave the mod and let another team working on the mod
2. if the current modding team wonīt release the source code and all its stuff, that another modteam or some modders join together and make a new aka own hidden source mod on the source engine or the cryengine 3.

i would mapping and creating textures.

why we need immediatly a update for hidden source :
- you stuck too many times on the maps
- hidden movement should be smooth
- there are so many "lags" bug, there are many examples and its one of the biggest bug in the mod , for example:
the pistol fires sometimes more bullets with one mouse click than the p90 or f2000 which gives you the feeling you have lags.
another example are the sounds, when you reloading you gun, the reloadings sounds repeat very fast few times and that gives you the feeling you have lags.
another example are some places on the maps, for example stalkyard, when you go up with the lift and walk into the room there and before you enter the room, you lag very much there you go forward but because of the lag you go back and that repeat very fast.
- there are too many bugs that need to be fixed.

it is a awesome mod, i love it, but the current team lying to us & do not work on it and it is time for a new version.

biohazard-uk
1st September 2012, 16:36
You do know they don't get paid to do this, right? Which means they don't have to stick to any deadlines and they do have other commitments like work, uni and having a life...which tend to be more important than a mod which they receive no income from.

Some changes for the next BETA version can be found here (http://forum.hidden-source.com/showthread.php?8708-B5-Changes-(may-not-be-100-accurate)). The other bugs I'm sure they're aware of and will fix them (if they haven't already fixed them), but the mod is currently still in BETA, so don't expect it to be perfect and bug free. It is still playable and I enjoyed playing it when I did, regardless of these issues.

The next version of the mod will be released some day, until then you'll have to be patient :)

The last update I'm aware of - correct me if I'm wrong - it was just code stuff and moving the mod over to the orange box engine that just needs to be done(?). And if you didn't notice the "Hiddenite test build updates" section, where the latest revision was 23rd May 2012, while it's not very recent (as in the last couple of weeks), it still shows they have been working on it recently and haven't just left it since 2007.

shephart
1st September 2012, 18:02
i know that they do not gt paid and there are many other important things like you said, but then they should not claim that they are working on it which gives the players hope.

the mod is still in BETA, yes since 2007 its beta.

and now you bring another claim that the next beta will be released some day.... idk exactly, but Ging said one time it will be released in september, i think it was in 2009.

as you said, there are many other important things in life, but it is no reason to claim that a new beta will be released when the devs did not even worked on it, when the devs stop working on the mod, it is okay, its theyr mod, but they should stop lying around here saying they are working since 5 years on beta 5 and let other peoples work on this mod, and just because its theyr mod, it does not give them the right they can lie to the players and give them hope.

about the hiddennite test build update :
i wonīt download every single file, so if you have these files on your computer, i would be very thankful when you put them all into a .rar file and upload them, it is not just for me, but for the other peoples who wanīt to test it.

biohazard-uk
1st September 2012, 19:03
He did say it would be released in "a" month ;)


about the hiddennite test build update :
i wonīt download every single file, so if you have these files on your computer, i would be very thankful when you put them all into a .rar file and upload them, it is not just for me, but for the other peoples who wanīt to test it.

These are for internal testing only, even if I did have access, I wouldn't upload them to the public as it would defeat the purpose of them being internal test builds and they are only intended for the hiddenites to test certain changes, so they would be buggy as hell...

Digit*
1st September 2012, 19:10
You must have reading issues, that's okay. We can't all have the might of perception and logic carrying us on their mighty back like a white pure-bred horse and omg the most badass horse you ever fucking saw omfg and so forth. So i'm gonna like give you a little link here. Check this out ftw. (http://forum.hidden-source.com/forumdisplay.php?19-Hiddenite-Test-Build-Updates) Yeah. I'm also pretty sure you don't understand that the hiddenite updates you see on the forums aren't actually files...they are updates...typed out...in a thread...on what they have been doing...and...stuff. But even if someone had those files it'd be in really bad taste to just give you those without consent from the devs. But that's cool, see since we like positive things i'm not going to mention anything about being blind as shit and not understanding the most simple of things. No cus we like positive things and i wouldn't do something that mean.

Now it's cool that you're so passionate and enthousiastic about this mod. A more negative kind of me might have seen that shit you posted as being arrogant, but i'm not so i'm gonna keep it positive here. We like positive things. You also apperantly have trouble realising that having a life with oh, frivolous things like, a family, a job, maybe even children might impact the amount of time someone has to work on something they're doing as a hobby and since they do not get paid they technically speaking are NOT obliged to do anything for us so yeah...but i'm gonna keep it positive and say that hey man, misreading and misunderstanding things can happen. No biggie. Here have a cookie bro.

Also, most of those map related "lag" issues aren't that much to do with lag. Like take stalkyard for example with the door before the vent room, yeah it's pretty known that you kind "glue" to the floor and they are resolving those issues in the bext beta so be sure to stick around for those awesome fixes! The hidden's movement is also smooth enough. There are barely any hickups in it's movement if you're playing on a server with decent ping. Just remind yourself that any server with 100+ ping is subject to having laggy and/or warpy movement. But in a normal playing environment the movement is pretty smooth. I'm also pretty sure some lag related issues can be traced back to valve's netcoding, wich isn't exactly stellar in the source engine of Episode 1. Perhaps we will see less of this in the superior Episode 2 engine wich has seen many many good updates. But i'm pretty sure you're an up-to-date fellow regarding all these knowamajigs. Yeah cus we like positive things man.

So now that i made things clear in a positive and friendly way i would like to end this little post with another positive thing that would suit you perfectly.

Enjoy this positive picture. You positive burly man you. (http://www.myfacewhen.net/view/2103-youre-a-special-kind-of-stupid-arent-you)



Ah fuck looks like i still did it again didn't i? goddammit...ah well, you win some and lose some.

shephart
3rd September 2012, 15:31
You must have reading issues, that's okay. We can't all have the might of perception and logic carrying us on their mighty back like a white pure-bred horse and omg the most badass horse you ever fucking saw omfg and so forth. So i'm gonna like give you a little link here. Check this out ftw. (http://forum.hidden-source.com/forumdisplay.php?19-Hiddenite-Test-Build-Updates) Yeah. I'm also pretty sure you don't understand that the hiddenite updates you see on the forums aren't actually files...they are updates...typed out...in a thread...on what they have been doing...and...stuff. But even if someone had those files it'd be in really bad taste to just give you those without consent from the devs. But that's cool, see since we like positive things i'm not going to mention anything about being blind as shit and not understanding the most simple of things. No cus we like positive things and i wouldn't do something that mean.

Now it's cool that you're so passionate and enthousiastic about this mod. A more negative kind of me might have seen that shit you posted as being arrogant, but i'm not so i'm gonna keep it positive here. We like positive things. You also apperantly have trouble realising that having a life with oh, frivolous things like, a family, a job, maybe even children might impact the amount of time someone has to work on something they're doing as a hobby and since they do not get paid they technically speaking are NOT obliged to do anything for us so yeah...but i'm gonna keep it positive and say that hey man, misreading and misunderstanding things can happen. No biggie. Here have a cookie bro.

Also, most of those map related "lag" issues aren't that much to do with lag. Like take stalkyard for example with the door before the vent room, yeah it's pretty known that you kind "glue" to the floor and they are resolving those issues in the bext beta so be sure to stick around for those awesome fixes! The hidden's movement is also smooth enough. There are barely any hickups in it's movement if you're playing on a server with decent ping. Just remind yourself that any server with 100+ ping is subject to having laggy and/or warpy movement. But in a normal playing environment the movement is pretty smooth. I'm also pretty sure some lag related issues can be traced back to valve's netcoding, wich isn't exactly stellar in the source engine of Episode 1. Perhaps we will see less of this in the superior Episode 2 engine wich has seen many many good updates. But i'm pretty sure you're an up-to-date fellow regarding all these knowamajigs. Yeah cus we like positive things man.

So now that i made things clear in a positive and friendly way i would like to end this little post with another positive thing that would suit you perfectly.

Enjoy this positive picture. You positive burly man you. (http://www.myfacewhen.net/view/2103-youre-a-special-kind-of-stupid-arent-you)



Ah fuck looks like i still did it again didn't i? goddammit...ah well, you win some and lose some.

oh well, ok we love positive things, your mom and dad are AIDS positive for example, yes we love positive things, didnīt we ?

Ging
6th September 2012, 20:42
oh well, ok we love positive things, your mom and dad are AIDS positive for example, yes we love positive things, didnīt we ?

Because that sort of grown up response is going to make us want to release any sort of source code or assets to you isn't it?

V da Mighty Taco
15th September 2012, 20:43
Warning - I am about to say things that could very well piss off a lot of people, especially the team behind the Hidden.

While I disagree with shephart's idea of trying to kick out the dev team, he is right that the dev team has essentially abandoned the mod up until very recently. While I get that they have family and jobs to get to, the fact remains that this mod's last update was over five years ago. By the looks of the Hiddenites forum, even they've had to wait multiple years in between updates; and the last update they seen was back in May. It's been five years that this has been in beta. Let me repeat that - five YEARS. Most development cycles for AAA games aren't that long (not even half that long in EA's and Activision's cases). People have been waiting for Half-Life 2: Episode 3 for five years as well. In all that time, no one still has any idea when this mod is going to see an update - let alone when it will leave beta. Now it's fine if they really do want to abandon it - that's their right; but after all this time and with any info on this update being so very rare, they still want to insist that they've been working on it all along. Even with jobs and family taken into account, it's extremely hard to believe that even if they worked on it an hour a month that they couldn't get out a patch to fix any of the games numerous bugs or give an idea about when this is suppose to be released. Add to the fact that - according to Ging - most of the old dev team moved on to work at game studios and can't even legally work on the Hidden anymore, and it becomes obvious why people believe that support for this mod died a long time ago. Maybe now that the guys at Machinima have brought so much attention to this mod, it'll finally see that b5 (or something like that) update that was suppose to come out several years ago. But until then, being skeptical of this mod's dev team actually getting things done when in half-a-decade they've gotten nothing to show for all their supposed work is a perfectly valid sentiment that doesn't deserve you're sarcastic insults.

Let's do hope though that they go through with it and do start working on it again, though. Finishing it late is still better than never.

Ging
16th September 2012, 01:02
Most development cycles for AAA games aren't that long (not even half that long in EA's and Activision's cases). People have been waiting for Half-Life 2: Episode 3 for five years as well.

AAA games have on average, 150 people working on them, often for 10 hours a day at a time. Which gives them roughly 7500 man hours of work a *week* (even an 8 hour day gives 6000 man hours), which is why they get games finished so "quickly" (ie, within 2 years). There's 3 programmers and 4 artists on our team right now, all of whom have jobs and other responsibilities, which does mean that on rare occasions when the gods are with us, we can drum up a few hours a week to do some work. It's far from ideal, but it's just how life is so we deal with it.

We could have dropped the "beta" tag back when we released version 4, would that have made you feel any better that we've not continued the rate of updates we've previously had? Consider that by then we'd already gone through 2 years of development and releases, which is more post-release support than you'll get from 90% of AAA titles.


Add to the fact that - according to Ging - most of the old dev team moved on to work at game studios and can't even legally work on the Hidden anymore

Erm, no? The "old" dev team are the current dev team - no legal restrictions on working on a mod. I think you're confusing a statement I've made in regards to going "commercial".

V da Mighty Taco
17th September 2012, 21:02
AAA games have on average, 150 people working on them, often for 10 hours a day at a time. Which gives them roughly 7500 man hours of work a *week* (even an 8 hour day gives 6000 man hours), which is why they get games finished so "quickly" (ie, within 2 years). There's 3 programmers and 4 artists on our team right now, all of whom have jobs and other responsibilities, which does mean that on rare occasions when the gods are with us, we can drum up a few hours a week to do some work. It's far from ideal, but it's just how life is so we deal with it.

We could have dropped the "beta" tag back when we released version 4, would that have made you feel any better that we've not continued the rate of updates we've previously had? Consider that by then we'd already gone through 2 years of development and releases, which is more post-release support than you'll get from 90% of AAA titles.

I get that. You're a team of seven people who are working on a free mod that's completely non-profit and by all means you don't even have to support. However, after looking through the update history of The Hidden (I'm one of those that are just now learning about The Hidden) and looking through the official Hidden website and forums, there's not only a five-year gap between updates even for the Hiddenites, there's also a severe lack of verbal updates and info from you during said five years. It's become commonplace to wait months or often years before any of you say a word on what's going on with The Hidden. Even your main homepage has a three-year gap between your two most recent updates. That's where the problem lies. Had you been talking to your fans more often and letting them know that you all were still working on it, the perception that this mod's abandoned wouldn't exist and you would get a lot less complaints in general. The past five years have been incredibly quite from you all, however, and thus you get people like the OP talking about wanting to finish it themselves.

Let me make it clear that I'm not trying to troll or be antagonistic here. My point with the previous post was that the OP's idea of replacing you was (for a lack of better words) very dumb but that the belief that The Hidden's support died a long time ago isn't unfounded. You need to keep people informed on the projects status if you don't want people to think that it's just another abandoned project like so many unfunded projects are. Not trying to beat you over the head with Bronydom, but look at Fighting is Magic. Not only do they inform people of the game's status on a consistent basis, but they actually show gameplay of it on occasion and even started informing people weekly on what's going on with the game (until the leak happened DX<). While I'm not saying you should do that, telling people what's going on at least once every two months would go a long way towards (again, lack of better words here) shutting people like the OP up and building good will from your fans.

Btw, you have an excellent point about the AAA industry - particularly EA and Activision - dropping support for a game a mere year after release. Got to give credit where credit is do, you've did far better supporting The Hidden than the people behind the post Modern Warfare games have. No wonder EA's tanking while Valve's rolling in money. XD

(Also, I'm terrible at explaining things and can be a bit repetitive. I apologize for that.)


Erm, no? The "old" dev team are the current dev team - no legal restrictions on working on a mod. I think you're confusing a statement I've made in regards to going "commercial".

I must have misread or misunderstood you then. My fault there. Any way I can cross that part out? (don't want to flat out delete that segment, since I acknowledge that I said it and was wrong.)

Bravo
19th September 2012, 20:33
Is this a serious topic?

Release the ban stick.

Paegus
19th September 2012, 20:45
it's no less serious than your sig is oversized. i need over a solid mousewheel roll to get past it.

Xufe
19th September 2012, 20:49
Stephart guess what; How you gonna find modders; how you gonna find a team, who would lead the team; defentivly not you. A Mod is a enormous amount of work hell even if the devs loose interest in a mod its because a mod is a really fucking huge spare time operation. I'm working on a mod for a 14 year old game since about 4 years. The mod is singlepalyer and yes I have paused the mods for several times set my own dead lnies and narda mod is still far from finished. Because it is not very certain to have an interest in the same thing for 6 years and keep on woorking. That are lets say 8 people in the Hidden dev team. How you make sure all these 8 people have the interest to work on it for 6 years. If you want feel free to make a copy of hidden as it will most likely be abandonned by you after 3 years, even if not, it still won't be hidden because if it would be hidden there is no reason to download your version as you haven't made it that far... seriously entuhsiasm is ok but hell stop complaining about the devs and talk crap. Even abandonning the devs is kinda stupid. If you wanna make a knida hidden "putch" it should be not that obvious.

To the dev team: Yes he has some points abandonning the game for roughly 4 years without anything actual is pretty nasty. However with B4 you made some nice work and for that, that the game has been abandonned for several years it is still so popular; at least again. Maybe at least some notes and please:
DON't make the same mistake again and abandon it after the hype. And: Make the team bigger employ dev/artist/programmers/map makers/modelers etc.
Hidden has so damn much potential. Objective versions etc. And addiotonally hidden needs new maps and new ideas and to show the community that you actually do something; share ideas/ wip pics/ dev notes/ list bugs you fixed in your test version etc...

I hope someone feels offendend.

Bravo
19th September 2012, 21:23
it's no less serious than your sig is oversized. i need over a solid mousewheel roll to get past it.

Hah, you got me there. It's from 2005, I shall remove it.